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Some craziness

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you want to defund the police.


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  2. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    So your ok with the judgment of some who barely entered high school? Im not. She should not be there. Accompanied or not. This is a powder keg.


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  3. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there are many people who start a small business who wait until they are financially secure and THEN open up a liquor store in an inner city neighborhood as part of fulfilling their life goals. They open these businesses to improve their lives. That is their decision, and I get that, however, those business owners made their decision based on an environment where if you called the police or fire department for help, they would come. That's what they were paying their taxes for. If they were told before opening said business that the government would NOT stop people from looting or burning their business they probably wouldn't have opened it in the first place.

    That isn't just small business owners that assumed the government would live up to its responsibilities, btw. Look at Walgreens in SF closing a bunch of stores because the state and city government decided not to prosecute shoplifters and they can't afford to stay open in bad neighborhoods any more. They have plenty of money and legal council, but ended up with big losses because of a change in government behavior, and if Walgreens can't predict this type of situation in advance and protect themselves from it you can't expect a small business owner to.

    What I remember about Kenosha was the police and fire dept. barricading the downtown government buildings and being clustered there and NOT for example, putting out the fires of the buildings being burnt down or having the police stop the people from doing so. Thinking about it, I can't remember a specific article about where the police were particularly told to stand down, so if you haven't found one I might have been conflating that with a different riot. The only thing I *do* specifically remember in this regard is the governor telling Trump he did NOT want the National Guard soldiers Trump wanted to send him.

    I never said that Rittenhouse had the same authority as a soldier -- he doesn't. My point was that it was wrong to call Rittenhouse a "killer" for fighting to defend his life.
     
  6. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    It's *already* really bad. The BLM/Antifa riots cost the country Billions, and if I remember right over 20 lives.
     
  7. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: I guess you haven't read about Wisconsin's newest killer. Look at how many times he was released from jail without being given life in prison or being shot by the police. Actually, it's too bad he WASN'T shot by police during one of his many earlier crimes, there would be 5 more innocent people still alive, 5 less broken families, and a lot less wounded people out there.

    I didn't say they couldn't, but was pointing out that Rittenhouse isn't the only minor at a *protest* walking around with a gun. And BTW, I'd also say this father is a *bad father* for exposing his daughter to such a risk. The "in the company of a guardian" bit applies to those 16 and under like this girl. It does NOT apply to Rittenhouse who was 17 at the time.
     
  8. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Nope. I want the police to protect the public, just like I want the fire department to put out fires. That's what they are *paid* to do.
     
  9. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I agree she shouldn't be there, especially now when the governor and mayor WANT to stop a riot.
     
  10. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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  11. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Well... I'd wait for the coroner's report, the angle of the bullet's entry, etc., not to mention checking for powder burns on BOTH people in the room. Having to choose between the shooter being a 2 year old and the shooter being the other adult in the room, I'd go with the other adult being more likely.
     
  12. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    While people don’t wait until they are financially secure, it does require a certain amount of capital to start a business and stay in business. Much is covered by loans or other means but there are many things that need to be taken into consideration in a good business plan.

    https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/290796

    This according to an article by Business News Daily regarding insurance:


    What to do: Your first line of defense against property theft or damage is insurance coverage. Gibbons noted that some businesses aren't adequately insured to their true values.

    "Ask yourself if you have enough coverage to rebuild a business after a total loss," Gibbons said. "Business owners should make sure their building and its contents – including shelving, displays, inventory, and any new equipment – are properly insured. Properties should be insured to their full replacement value – not market value – including any recent improvements."

    Michael Freed, a business litigation attorney at Gunster law firm, urged business owners to consider business interruption insurance to keep their cash flow going, even if operations have been halted temporarily.

    "Business interruption insurance provides coverage for lost revenues and profits arising from uncontrollable interruptions in business operations, such as those arising from natural disasters or a building fire," Freed said. "When that type of casualty strikes, business owners need not only to rebuild where there has been physical damage but to offset for missing revenues while they do so. This is particularly critical for businesses with limited capital reserves."

    Beyond that, Humphrey advised developing a plan so your business has a protocol to follow should such an interruption occur.

    "To develop a plan, businesses should identify threats or risks most likely to occur based on historical, geographical, organizational, and other factors, [and] conduct a business impact analysis [to] identify [what is] critical to the survival of your business," he said. Then, "adopt controls for mitigation and prevention, which can include emergency response, public relations, resource management, and employee communications," he said.

    https://www.businessnewsdaily.com/9024-biggest-business-insurance-risks.html

    My point was that if you don’t have the capital to do it right you take unnecessary risks that your business will fail on any number of levels. Proper insurance coverage is considered necessary for a business to survive.


    You talk about the “inner city”. I’ve never been to Kenosha but if Main Street is so seedy, why would a prudent businessman want to open his business there? Those that take the risk in what I believe you are implying is a high crime area, no doubt figure on hiring full time armed security as part of their business expenses anyway and would not have to plead for people to come and “protect” them.

    Why would the National guard need to be called in if the local police had a good handle on the situation? Why not call for assistance from a neighboring department, if necessary, first? It would seem people bitch when the feds get involved and bitch when they don’t.

    It was Kyle’s excuse that he thought his life was in danger. No doubt, the panicked boy really had that in mind but he was very, very lucky. With the exception of Grosskreutz, the other two men were unarmed. Grosskreutz raised his gun, then lowered it. If Kyle had been facing hard core militants, I think they would have mowed him down without hesitation. It wouldn’t even have to be militants. When people hear gunfire, all hullabaloo breaks out. People who won’t hesitate to shoot could return fire if they think they are defending themselves in an active shooter situation. That’s why people were chasing Kyle that night, to disarm him. I hope he doesn’t plan on doing anything like this again.

    So we agree Kyle had no authority to be out on those streets that night. The soldier is charged by the government to kill the enemy who is also armed and trying to kill him. So the soldier, while on the offense is also trying to defend himself and the men/women with him.

    Kyle made his own decision to place himself in harms way. He killed men who were not similarly armed. Trying to hit someone with a skateboard is not the same as firing back with an AR-15. That makes him a killer to me.
     
    #7012 purriwinkle, Nov 23, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
  13. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    I’m talking in terms of human lives lost. If those marching decide to arm themselves for protection as well, there are gonna be a lot of people wounded and killed if a gun battle erupts. Then add the police firing as well and there you have yourself a blood bath.
     
  14. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Could be. However, mobs of looters are already using guns to keep the police at bay while they are on their looting sprees. Why *not* have the police just shoot these criminals? Why allow them to keep committing crimes? From last weekend:

    "
    Mobs of thieves ransacked at least two dozen San Francisco area businesses over the weekend, as smash and grab incidents rage in the Bay Area.

    "At least two dozen businesses were impacted," Oakland Police Chief LeRonne Armstrong told CBS SF. "Roving caravans of vehicles, targeting cannabis operations, retail shops, pharmacies, throughout the city of Oakland."

    The mobs of thieves hit a handful of pharmacies and marijuana dispensaries in Oakland, including the Wellspring pharmacy that released surveillance video of the scene to the media. Police added that the mobs in Oakland fired 175 shots during the incidents, forcing officers to pull back to safe locations, The Mercury News reported. "

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/2-dozen-san-francisco-area-businesses-ransacked-mobs-looting
     
  15. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    And that sounds like what's taught in business school. The reality though is that a lot of these businesses are opened by immigrants who pool their family's money to open a shop selling something that the community needs or wants. If they have insurance, so much the better, but their situation is more hand to mouth and different than Skip or Buffy opening a Froyo as a lark.

    On the national guard, they didn't HAVE a good handle on the situation! One's town being burnt down and looted is pretty much the *definition* of NOT having a handle on the situation.

    It seems like you look up to "hard core militants" that would mow down Rittenhouse. Just so we're clear, those people that you look up to are the people that were burning down and looting innocent people's property. You need a better choice of heroes, IMO. If I had my way the police and the army would dispose of all your "militants" at once and then the rest of us could walk from one side of the town to the other without fear of being attacked.

    On Rittenhouse's attackers, a grown man can kill someone else even without a gun, and there are examples of this almost every day. These were grown men with convictions for violent felonies. They are used to inflicting violence on people. If they were so confident in their ability to inflict violence on a high school student they felt they didn't NEED a gun to successfully hurt him and were wrong, welp, that's on them. In any event, society is probably better off without the two criminals shot by Rittenhouse committing more crimes.
     
    #7015 Morgotha, Nov 23, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
  16. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Tell me, what poor immigrant’s family business did Kyle go to “protect”? Sound business practices are sound business practices whether or not they are followed. As the first article I cited stated:
    More than 500,000 businesses are established in America annually but half of them fail within five years. The No. 1 reason for failure is a bad strategy backed by surplus optimism, but the next biggest cause of failure is a lack of funding.
    I get it people take risks but one half of the risk coin is failure.
    Even poor immigrant families need to have contingency plans in place for all sorts of situations that could arise.

    You stated earlier:

    The only thing I *do* specifically remember in this regard is the governor telling Trump he did NOT want the National Guard soldiers Trump wanted to send him.

    So the National Guard wasn’t there, right? So they had NO handle on the situation one way or the other. This was on the local cops.

    I didn’t say militants were heros. I worry that there is a hard core left fringe, just like there is a hard core right fringe who will not hesitate to engage in mutual gunfire at some point in time if things continue on the way they are.

    Looters may or may not be associated with the people gathered to protest but tag along because they’re opportunistic, Seeing that illegal guns are a problem in this country, those looters may choose to arm themselves in the future, not necessarily legally. Now if in the apprehension of said looters, provided they are indeed armed and perhaps discharging their weapons in the commission of their crimes, it would be an appropriate use of force by police officers if they had to shoot back. Nothing wrong with that. That is why we have police.

    In any active shooter situation, not involving another crime, the average citizen may decide it’s best to bring along their own weapon if they choose to engage in any enterprise which involves large crowds of people. I see it heading that way. I never understood why those on the right never seem to understand that people on the left are legal gun owners too and know how to shoot. If the principle of self defense was supposed to be reinforced in this case, people on the left have the right to defend themselves as well.
     
  17. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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  18. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    • Funny Funny x 1
  19. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    This dame is one hell of a story teller. Too bad she’s not very original. I’ve seen those various elements in many a sci-fi movie.
    The only other explanation is that she was dreaming while high on something. What I find amazing is how those two men she was telling this tale to could keep a straight face. :D
     
  20. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    The guy sitting next to her was her husband. Lol


    The truth is out there
     

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