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Is Negan redeemable? - still the million dollar question

Discussion in 'Episode 1114 - The Rotten Core' started by BlackBird, Mar 23, 2022.

  1. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    The question 'Is Negan redeemable?' has been brought to focus yet again in this episode.

    After much thought I think my answer is yes, he is. A long way to go though.

    Really, this is one of the most fascinating questions the show has ever raised, but unfortunately the writers haven’t addressed it effectively enough with all the patchy writing - because if they had, opinions wouldn't be so widely divided.

    There should have been way more in-depth dialogues addressing the past, not just between Negan and Maggie, but between Negan and all the other characters he has hurt. Unfortunately, the show rarely does satisfactory in-depth dialogues. This is a problem with a more story and action driven story telling, rather than a character based approach. It's such a pity, because there are some amazing characters on this show, built up by the actors reading between the lines, but really, they should have had the lines.

    Killing Glenn was just one very bad thing Negan did. Arguably not even the worst thing. Yet none of that has been addressed on the show when it comes to regrets. Even with Glenn's death, it's not the fact that Negan killed him (and Abraham, to punish the group for killing a whole bunch of Saviors), but the WAY he killed Glenn and Abraham that was most horrifying. The theatrics, the revelling in the power: the violence, the humiliation, the total lack of humanity.

    It's a great pity we were not privy to Negan's confession to Annie. A very frustrating omission.

    Previous to this episode, the last thing the writers made Negan say on the matter was how he only regrets not killing them all in that lineup. Obviously what he meant there was that he identified a mistake that subsequently brought on his downfall, and his words set Maggie up on finishing the Reapers to avoid making the same mistake. It was an important message, but again, very frustratingly, the opportunity for Negan to express any real regret about his actions, was bypassed.

    From morsels of writing and JDM's acting, we have been given evidence of some remorse, but there has always been a push and pull. Negan's participation in attacking Hilltop with the Whisperers was a huge set back.

    In this episode Negan has admitted to Hershel that he was a "bad man". This was a first. And a very important step in his redemption.

    We must define what we mean by redemption, and not confuse it with forgiveness. Redemption for me is someone recognising their bad deeds as bad and regrettable deeds, and then having a fervent resolution to not do such things again, and instead try to be of service to people to atone for all the hurt they've caused.

    Is Negan doing any of these things? I think he's definitely taking steps in this direction. So he will be redeemed if he can arrive to feel full regret and if he can manage to turn his life around and not fall off the wagon ever again.

    I've used this term specifically, because I see his past deeds as a product of his perverse addiction to power and hedonism, an addiction to suppressing his humanity in order to not feel weak. It was like a drug for him, that held him together. Never allowing himself to question his own actions. Underneath this persona he created was a very weak person who couldn't handle pain. The person in the cell Maggie couldn't bring herself to kill because she found so pathetic.

    So Negan's redemption journey has been his attempt at building himself up again, and trying to create a better version of his past incarnations. Better than he used to be before the apocalypse: a shallow, hedonistic, easily angered git with no backbone. Better than he used to be as the leader of the Saviors. Getting back to the self he was beginning to find when he was with Lucille after the ZA. I think he is trying to return to finding and nurturing that part of himself. He's allowing himself to feel again, to connect to people without trying to control them. He’s admitting and regretting at least some of his wrong doings. He's trying to be of service to his community. Definitely on the path of redemption.

    The jury is still out whether he will one day be indeed redeemed. That’s a question that can be only answered on the day he dies. But yes, I think it's possible.

    If only they could write it better.

    So what do you think? Over to you folks.
     
    #1 BlackBird, Mar 23, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2022
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  2. Blueman

    Blueman Well-Known Member

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    Agree!

    I think the writers purposefully do not give us Negan's confessions to Annie, leaving us a lot of room to imagine and each of us might come to a different conclusion.

    And, of course, if there is a Maggie/Negan spinoff, this means this question of Negan's redeemability will be carried forward into that series, where the writers will then have to answer. But for now, we have to guess.

    I observe that, when Hershel Jr pointed the gun at Negan, Negan did not resist/try to escape in any other way that I can detect from his body language or facial expression. IIRC, he knelt down to Hershel's level and explained the situation to him. My feeling, at least now, is that he is willing to die at that moment if Hershel did pull the trigger (if the CW troopers were not around at that time). Maybe he wishes Herhsel to grow up a few more years so that Hershel can be mature enough to understand the full consequence of killing him. This suggestion of Negan, I think, perhaps, is for the good sake of Hershel rather than for himself as Negan does not want Hershel to do something that he would regret for the rest of his life too (ie just like Negan's past killing of Glenn).
     
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  3. blundig

    blundig Member

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    I would like a swerve rather than a formulaic conclusion to this issue. I would like to see Negan continue on the path of his good deeds, including toward Maggie. Then, without any build, she dispassionately executes him from behind, casually spits on him, and keeps walking.
     
  4. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    What I think is the highlighted part in your post.
     
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  5. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    lol, yes. I could have just said that.
     
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  6. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    I think Negan is as redeemed as he’s ever going to get. His time in prison broke him basically and he had nothing else to do but deconstruct everything he did that led him to that point.

    I feel he regretted many of his actions but because of his history with our group, they could never fully forgive or accept him. With his new group, he’s returned to whatever passes for “normal” in the ZA.

    He managed to get himself into the new group, without his head ending up on the shelf, no small feat as we saw with the guy who was their leader. He married someone who accepts and appreciates him warts and all and he’s become vulnerable because as a father to be, he has something precious and irreplaceable to lose now. He seemed to understand what impact he had on Herschel and has given the boy the opportunity for closure when he gets older. Never tried to weasel out of it. How much of role he’ll play until the series ending , if any, will be interesting.
     
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  7. Miamicuse

    Miamicuse Active Member

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    I disagree that Negan should redeem himself.

    He is who he is. As debated many times in the past, from his vantage point he was seeking justice for a group who went and killed everyone in one of his outposts.

    He decided to not kill them all, but to use this group as a resource but he had to do something to intimidate the group into submission and to show other savior's he meant business which led to killing Abe and Glenn. The only thing that's repulsive was the brutal manner of the killing, other than that he is not that different from Rick's group. You could argue that father Gabriel did much worse by shutting the church doors and let everyone die and no one made a big deal about his redemption.

    I am fine with Negan being Negan.
     
  8. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    Well, it wasn’t just the brutal killing of Abe and Glenn though… it was burning faces with iron, putting a doctor in the fire, threatening a child with imminent death, and before that with his hand cut off by his own father to save their friends’ lives… not to mention coercing women into “marrying” him or else their loved ones would die… There was barely a limit for him, he was drunk on his own power, he could do anything, anything he wanted. Not all of these things were done just to intimidate others, there was definitely a disengagement from his humanity and a mild curiosity how far he could take things before anyone tried to stop him. So I think when you dehumanise yourself to this extent, there’s plenty scope for redemption.
     

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