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Carol's letter

Discussion in 'Episode 614 - Twice as Far' started by jeebs, Mar 20, 2016.

  1. Rapscallion

    Rapscallion Well-Known Member

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    Carol meant that Maggie is supposed to be a mother, not a childless woman who kills people that need killing. Later in that episode, Maggie became a killer and realized Carol was right.
     
  2. Camilleyun

    Camilleyun Well-Known Member

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    Right...a mother, not a childless woman who kills people that need killing. Kinda like Carol. I took it to mean she didn't want Maggie to end up like herself.
     
  3. mtamborra

    mtamborra Member

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    THEY ARE RUINING CAROL! They built her up to be the ultimate bad ass in that episode where she went in stealth ninja mode and now they are bringing her back down to whiny bytch status. WTF! How could they do this? One moral dilemma person (Morgan) is enough for this show! Why waste all that time making her a bad ass so we get a stupid runaway letter? Is she gonna become a hermit in the forest? Give me a F***ing break!
     
  4. Coreenfw

    Coreenfw Member

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    Camilleyun, i completely got that from that comment also, i was certain that much if her concern for Maggie had a lot to do with her own current insecurity. I feel it is likel a PTSD type reaction, and while i understand this, i have enjoyed Carols transformation, and want her NOT to second guess her killer instinct..... So, really not excited about this return to a weaker seeming character. Personally, i hope she IS planning an infiltration to Negans group, but.... I don't think this is how she would have handled it, she would have told someone of her plan....
     
  5. Zvivor

    Zvivor Well-Known Member

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    Don't buy it. Human brains are incredibly malleable. A person, unlike a tiger, can change their stripes if they really want to.

    I think Carol went undercover. That doesn't mean she is not upset about all the killing -- what normal person wouldn't be -- it means she's look for a way to end it or get the upper hand on it. And she knows that Rick's game plan of perpetual warfare with bad guys will not end it, ever. Only someone who can destroy them from the inside can end it. I think next season is going to be a total hoot.

    I'm also guessing that Morgan will leave as well -- and that somehow, he and Carol will interplay to give Rick, Carl, Judith, etc. the upper hand in this war to come.
     
  6. westwingnut

    westwingnut Well-Known Member

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    Just when did Carol become Death Carol? Starting in episode 501. Just a few months in their time, and not even one-third of the show's run. So if she cracks, it's completely understandable.

    I happen to believe that Carol's arc is being written by Kirkman himself, so I expect the story to be worthwhile, whatever the outcome.


    ETA: And by "Death Carol", I mean Carol the badass ninja warrior.
     
    #86 westwingnut, Mar 21, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
  7. rustybag

    rustybag Member

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    ^ I hope so @Zvivor, maybe she was thinking about how things went the other night and the targets they have on their backs now, and has other, more insidious ways of handling this new group. If they ruin her by having some silent ninja walker bite her, or she stabs Negan in the shoulder with a little pair of scissors, I will be very upset. [​IMG]
     
    #87 rustybag, Mar 21, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
  8. Camilleyun

    Camilleyun Well-Known Member

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    I guess PTSD is the right description. The weeks after the Wolf attack she seemed to be trying to be the person she portrayed herself as when they arrived in Alexandria. Apparently after the Wolf attack and Sam's death, she spent her time picking out flowery blouses to go with her blue cardigan, baking cookies ( baking distracts her) and hitting on the middle aged nice guy down the street by bringing him treats and insulting him. She's trying to be the person she thinks she should have been?? I think sometimes we forget that Carol was an abused woman before the ZA, so she was already pretty damaged.
    I agree with you about hoping they don't completely wreck her character.
     
  9. Brother AJ

    Brother AJ New Member

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    Ionut, NORMAL humans are not cold and calculating logicians. You would be deluded in thinking that what Carol has done thus far was never something that affected her emotionally. Her emotions were never really gone, they were just being kept beneath the surface. One's actions being motivated by emotions and morality is not indicative of being a "headcase", but a human being.

    We have another word for that. It's called being a sociopath, and Carol isn't one and never was. Deal with it.

    LOL! The ridiculous shit that comes out of your mouth. Okay, I'll bite, where in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) are these traits listed as diagnostic criteria for ANY mental illness?

    Apparently many of you would much rather Carol be a mindless war machine, that feels nothing after leaving piles of bloodied dead bodies in her wake, than for her to be an actual human being with understandable motivations and emotions. Sorry, that isn't what human beings are, nor should the writers try and depict your unrealistic fantasies. I'd be mad if she DIDN'T feel this way. Let's see how you're feeling after being responsible for several gruesome murders, then get back to me.
     
    #89 Brother AJ, Mar 21, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
  10. mtamborra

    mtamborra Member

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    That's the complete opposite end of the spectrum. She was at a point where it was like "this sucks, but has to be done". and she was fine there. That's different than a war machine gun toting maniac. She is also stealthy and pretty much the most capable person in the group
     
  11. TWD_fanatic

    TWD_fanatic Member

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    She was joking (or Atleast Daryl thought she was ).
     
  12. AnnieOakley

    AnnieOakley Active Member

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    You nailed it. Discussion over.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. WebbieD

    WebbieD Member

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    I think maybe they have been working Carol towards this for awhile, since Lizzie and the Grove at least. I wondered when she started telling the scary Monster stories to Sam if someone was not up, because that was just over the line. She obviously was trying to push him away from getting close and at the same time thinking she was toughing him up. Toby was her probably just to try to feel something, plus for someone that didn't smoke she is chain smoking. I also think she might care more for Daryl than she wants to admit, thinking he doesn't feel the same and is trying to block it out. Well their is my take. Also, I wonder if Morgan is going to find her on his horse and take her back and put her in his jail cell and try to play Eastman to her. If so I hope Daryl takes his bow and shoots him in his azz. Someone needs to lock Morgan up in his own cell. :zombies_shocked:
     
    #93 WebbieD, Mar 21, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
  14. Rapscallion

    Rapscallion Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Carol's back to her original intention of moving on after the group got settled somewhere safe; she has done to many shocking things to help the group and to survive and she feared the group wouldn't want her amongst them, like Rick had told her.

    Carol was trying to frighten Sam into not telling his mother about the stolen guns. Yes, Carol scared the boy, but she included the cookies as a bribe. Carol liked Sam, but she didn't want to get attached to another child.

    I think Carol wants normalcy and Tobin is as close to normalcy as she could find, but there isn't any connection between them. Tobin is a nice, but boring man.

    I believe Carol loves Daryl, but she doesn't want to see him die like everyone else she's loved. I believe Daryl loves Carol too, but he thinks "shit isn't settled yet" to build a life with her. Daryl also has lost people he's loved and is afraid to admit his feelings to Carol.

    I immediately thought Morgan was going to put Carol in that cell the moment I saw him welding the bars. Morgan's made Carol his special project, and he's partly responsible for the mental state she's in now. If Morgan does find Carol, and throws her in the cell, I hope Carol frees her, and kills Morgan in the process.
     
    #94 Rapscallion, Mar 21, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
  15. daveainthere

    daveainthere Member

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    I wonder if she took a sniper rifle with her and ends up

    One of the issues at this point that I have with Team Rick is that there seems to be absolutely no intel on the Saviors. Perhaps this Carol leaving and Daryl trying to find her, and even perhaps Morgan doing the same, leads up to some intel that will come into play later on

    Trivia question....How many antibiotics can you get in the orange backpack?
     
  16. Survival

    Survival Member

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    I have a feeling they're going to
     
  17. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    That's because they're manipulated to be emotional, reactionary ****wits. Ever heard the phrase "never mix business and emotion", ironic that they never apply that to seriously important things that effect everyone.

    I've clarified further in this thread already, re-post :

    I don't think her change was that drastic, nor did I think they presented her in a "stone cold badass" sort of way. I found it realistic during the time frame and in hectic real world scenario's, people who have it in them adapt quickly. They gradually showed Carol bringing things she's always had inside her IMO, but were stifled by things you've noted here - upbringing/abusive husband/religion/gender roles and whatever else.

    They still always showed that Carol was deeply wounded by the deaths of the children, being banished from the group. They showed Carol as someone who bottled everything up and kept a tougher exterior and having the weight of everything start to crack that is certainly realistic and could bring a new dimension to the character, but we're dealing with too quick of a drastic change and something that deviates too extreme from where she's evolved over the show's timeline.

    They don't need to ruin a character to bring in a new dimension just like they don't need to introduce an illogical extremist(Morgan)to add a layer of "humanity" during all of the death and mayhem.



    Never said she was, nor any of the main group members. But they all became realists and logicians in regards to dealing with human threats to their own existence. Carol did in fact become a quick thinking logician and exhibited immense mental development post-apocalypse.

    What I am arguing against is not that she wouldn't experience a range of emotions, but that she wouldn't jump drastically and have her defining characteristics meltdown in a short period of time.

    Very akin to your boy Morgan's extremist "all life is precious" filth not being realistic for anybody but the mentally ill.

    Abandoning your family that you've risked life and limb to protect and killed for because you suddenly have a drastic shift in mentality would be indicative of mental illness because it's irrational and abnormal, especially for her character.

    It appears to be PTSD if we're giving the writers any credit at all. But as you can see from the thread, even though you are a habitual selective reader, none of us are giving the writers much credit and we are chalking it up to poor writing and discarding of a seminal character of the series.



    I'm happy to see our PC social justice warrior crying humanist and biggest Morgan apologist return just so this kind of toxic mentality can be displayed in all of it's glory.

    Your assessment of how Carol is presented and perceived above prior to this new Carol breakdown is a monument to lacking the ability to perceive subtlety.

    Then again, you sympathize with Morgan, which automatically discredits anything you want to project as having the moral high ground.
     
    #97 Ionut, Mar 21, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
  18. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    Balance(shades of gray, meeting in the middle, healthy compromises) doesn't exist to extremists.
     
  19. mfinley

    mfinley Member

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    The show is exploring a new subject which is for the first time the group being the aggressors, going after Negan and his group. Up to this point they've be reacting to being attacked by other aggressors, typically offering a very violent reaction, but his is the first time they've taken the fight to someone else preemptively.

    Along with that story line they are showing how characters are reacting to that indirectly, this preemptive strike saw Glenn kill his first human being, Carol and Maggie have both been slowly evolving, the death of Sam's family effected Carol, Maggie being pregnant and considering the evolving role of life bringer as a mother is evolving her thinking, they were both held back from the fight with Negan, given a breather, being able to have some luxury of time to deal with their internal issues, however they were then abruptly forced back into violence when capture and had to resort to extreme violence, killing again with no real choices, they did what they had to do but both of them were hoping to remove themselves from violence and this choice was taken away from them. That's the best I can explain Carol and why she is now removing herself even further from the group to ensure she isn't called into killing for them again against her choice.
     
  20. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I don't think she needs ANY excuse for having PTSD after having lived through what they've all lived through. Some of our soldiers come back now and end up really messed up, and what they've been through on TWD is a lot worse, and there's not going to be an end to the ZA. If Bob can drink himself stupid, Abe and Sasha can flip out, Rick can totally lose it... why can't Carol just need some time to get her head together? People should be supporting her, not calling her some kind of failure. <- that last bit wasn't directed at you, btw, but yours was the post I replied to, lol.
     

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