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Was Rick wrong to kill the saviours?

Discussion in 'Episode 616 - Last Day on Earth' started by Darylette, Apr 6, 2016.

  1. Captain Sisko

    Captain Sisko Member

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    The issue of a Saviors attack being inevitable is irrelevant. Rick murdered saviors so he could fill his belly with food from the hilltop and share an apple in bed with michonne. That is pitiful and puts him in the same category as negan . He should have listened to morgan for another way out of their predicament. Morgan disagreed and wanted nothing to do with it, Now morgan is free and rick is in deep shit.

    Merle has been right all along about rick.

    "YOU COLD AS ICE OFFICER FRIENDLY"
    [video=youtube;p7sJslBKcwA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7sJslBKcwA[/video]
     
  2. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    Speculation of what could happen in extreme situations won't change the fact that what we are dealing with here is actually a situation that IS happening.

    Plus Negan isn't starving. They could be using their time to scavenge food themselves, instead they use it terrorizing others into doing the work for them.
     
  3. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Who won in the conquest of America, the cowboys, or the Indians? The big picture is that the larger, more coordinated group generally triumphs and populates the land over the isolated band of rugged individualists.
     
  4. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Or to put it another way, his group has divided it's labor into an army and a group of farmers. Rick's group is all hunter gatherers. As a society, a division of labor produces better results to feed more people.
     
  5. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    Negan's group is a small portion of the survivors compared to the combined population of all the communities in the region. The coordination of all the communities that are being terrorized would be the larger, more organized, and more healthy population for the future of humanity, if allowed to grow without being under the umbrella of Negan's terrorism.
     
  6. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. And without being hindered by Negan's control and terrorism, all the communities in the region can cooperate with trade and a division of labor.
     
  7. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    There aren't many societies where the goverment and/or the army outnumbers the population it rules over.
     
  8. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    They haven't yet. They haven't even MET each other. They don't have time, as they are too busy trying to survive. It takes a big group to be able to send groups of 10-20 out looking for others. That's the point.
     
  9. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    So you did a 180 there in your numbers.

    And Negan isn't the government of the communities. He doesn't organize their internal heirarchy. He's an outside force of terrorism for those communities.
     
  10. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    They haven't met and haven't had time to cooperate because they are too busy scavenging in fear under Negan's terrorist threats.
     
  11. HondaS2kXD

    HondaS2kXD Well-Known Member

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    Like most things in The Walking Dead, there's a little right and a little wrong in it.

    Overall, yes. The Saviors are evil. They force groups to give them half of their supplies on a regular basis, or face death. They need to be destroyed. Rick's decision to kill them in their sleep is similar to the US military's opting to use drones and missiles to keep more soldiers out of direct harm's way. The end goal is that all of the people on the other side of the conflict are dead or at least unwilling or unable to continue fighting. When that is the case, "fair chase" shouldn't be factored in.

    But on the other hand, it is going to cost them. The Saviors have more fighting men than any of them could have imagined, and as such defeating them will cause death on all sides.
     
  12. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    It will definitely cost them in the short term, I agree. Especially if Negan figures out how to use walker-blood tainted grenades!! ;). The long term net result should make up for that.

    And woah. Walker-gut tainted grenades. So anyone who even gets a small piece of shrapnel.......could this be a new cool thing? ;)
     
  13. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Sure the saviors are bad, but if they are as evil as you think, wouldn't they kill all but a few people in the ASZ and parade their heads around on a truck with the few people they let live act like living witnesses to what happens to anyone who resists Negan? Sounds more realistic to me. What does Negan do? Kills one person and tells the rest to bring him some of their trinkets and beads?

    TWD is making sound Negan look more like Alexander the Great than Bin Laden.
     
  14. westwingnut

    westwingnut Well-Known Member

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    The only reason why Negan won't kill the population of the ASZ is because they are more valuable to him alive than dead. If the opposite were the case, Negan would slaughter every last one of them.
     
  15. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    No. He wants to kill a minority and leave the majority alive to keep more unwilling slaves, getting him supplies. You should rewatch 6B.
     
  16. yuke

    yuke Member

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    Yeah Negan is bad. He takes half, no matter what. For some of the communities, taking half would cause them to starve to death. So yes, Negan will kill off entire groups without consideration. Rick's group on the other hand will only take what people can spare and if they are willing to do it.
     
  17. netr0pa

    netr0pa Member

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    Rick did a mistake to not spy deeply enough before striking the blow!

    He should have make sure to know the total population of Negan's group before getting into this mess. This is very impulsive way of taking care of business. No plans at all, just perform by emotions - reminds me of the way Governor was ruling.

    You can't just go all in ham like that without consideration or careful plans. If they knew Negan had at leas 300 men at his disposal, I think the plan would have been completely different. Maybe they would have to make sure to get Hilltop to join them in order to have a chance.

    They also didn't know about the Knight's existence but if they would... then we can talk about collaboration.

    I don't think AZN alone can take care of Negan's huge amount of soldiers. It's just too many and they are not all noobs either to be honest. They surely know how to fight.


    Rick was too convience with the fact that he and his group has always been invincible and top dogs. Now, they finally meet some BIG guy.
     
  18. Spidey

    Spidey Active Member

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    Rick joined Alexandria instead of asking for half of what they have and asking to kill one of them right off the bat. I do think Ricks group has been morally gray lately, but they have a long way to go to be on Negans level.

    Rick also consults others in the community what they want. Negan is a one man dictator.

    By the way this whole thing about rick killing people in their sleep is funny. As if its morally any better to kill someone who is awake lol???? If I snipe you from a far in a battle thats morally the same as pre empting the battle at night. Is it somehow morally better to let people try to defend themselves even if you have the same intention of killing? I dont think so.
     
    #38 Spidey, Apr 6, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2016
  19. DarylFTW

    DarylFTW Member

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    I just wanted to say that this is an excellent post. I completely agree.
     
  20. DarylFTW

    DarylFTW Member

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    Since the Saviors attacked D+A+S on the road, I don't think that Rick made a bad decision. But he was so cocky that he didn't do any intel, he didn't make any plans in case his went wrong. He just never prepared for anything but a victory. He got in way over his head.
     

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