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Time for Trump to go

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Jul 20, 2015.

  1. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    Couple things --

    Banning the AR15 specifically doesn't address high capacity semi-auto rifles, which there are many, many of those available from many different makes. Likewise, banning it outright doesn't address the core problem of lunatics being able to get a firearm period -- so it would just be a symbolic thing on a particular item that's been utilized due to the popularity of that particular gun.

    I also am not particularly hating on young people, I'm a millennial myself being a late 80s baby and I don't think that boomers or Gen X were any better in the slightest -- in fact in some ways worse off. But it's fact that socially our society has become desensitized and more mentally ill --

    I am for passing gun law reforms as I have stated, but they have to be intelligent and that's what I do not expect to happen.

    I assure you a ban on a couple of particular items without a background check reform and stuff like I am suggesting will do absolutely nothing to curb to this problem.

    In Norway a maniac shot up a bunch of kids with a semi auto 9mm target pistol carbine gun that would seem innocuous, but it functions all the same -- it shoots a projectile out and fires fast and it was a gun allowed in their way more stringent system. The maniac got it in their system.

    A mix of things need to happen to address these goddamned shootings. I wish we could have reasonable debates on it on the national level.
     
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  2. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    I'd have no issue what so ever paying a gun tax, even if it was a flat 100 per item.
     
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  3. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    Likewise, I was not resorting to the old "cars kill people more than guns, car accidents" logic when stating that trucks, bombs, knife terrorist attacks are on the rise, but rather just noting it to back up anybody saying that violent tendencies and craziness across the board is on the rise.

    Which was also partially backing up the need to reform the manner in which people can buy weapons because are flipped out more than ever in this era and we need to prevent crazies from getting guns as much as possible. We also need to prevent crazies from other things as well.
     
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  4. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    And the flood of black market weaponry that the bad people use descends from where?

    Multiple area's of course, but where's one of the primary area's?
     
  5. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    The other good thing about the idea of the shooter getting caught between the two layers of glass door is that you can just keep him there, and voila, he's already in prison. Just feed him processed meats with high levels of saturated fats and never give him any new clothes. That way in about 10 years when he's grown another 5 inches and has a pimento loaf gut, he will still be wearing a shirt that now shows several inches of his midriff and advertises a painfully outdated and lame boy band. And the complete inability to zip up his corduroys.

    It will serve as a constant reminder to the students that its NOT cool to be a shooter. And it can be field trip destination, where buses go by and the chaperone is like "see, does anyone want to turn out like THAT?" and everyone in unison "NOOOOOOOO", and then the smart mouth kid in the back yells "ewwwww, New Kids On The Block??....I want it that way, you got it..the right stuff!!.."

    And then you can hear the shooter's pants ripping as he stands up and hollers "HEY! THEY HAD A FEW GOOD HITS IN THEIR EARLY YEARS!!"
     
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  6. Biffster

    Biffster Well-Known Member

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    What blows me away (so to speak) is how defenders of the second amendment honestly believe in the right to own a gun. I live in Canada, and this is something I simply cannot wrap my brain around. There are lots of firearms in Canada, certainly, but here gun ownership is a privilege, not a right. Perhaps Americans could make far more progress with respect to shooting deaths (and the numbers are far too many) if you adopted a similar approach. The right to a well-armed militia is bit of an anachronism anyway, and I'm sure the creators of 2A did not have automatic and semi-automatic weapons in mind. It takes a lot longer to load a musket than an AR-15 or similar firearm.
     
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  7. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    Because, for some reason, people have decided that killing people will help solve their problems
     
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  8. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    Internet gun forums and home invasions.
     
  9. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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  10. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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  11. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    I think that was because it wasn't until then that someone decided her story warranted a catch and kill and asked her to write down the details.
     
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  12. Jama

    Jama Well-Known Member

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    Whether or not our Founding Fathers had semi-automatic weapons in mind when deciding this right, is irrelevant, because that type of weaponry didn't exist... So how could they have had them in mind?

    Even so, these were intelligent, educated and privileged men. I'm sure they they had a vague/general understanding that current weaponry would evolve and improve, as it has for centuries prior.

    Maybe if M-16s and rocket launchers and Uzis did exist, the FFs would have been more careful with their phrasing of that amendment, but we'll never know.

    Also, the Founding Fathers go into great detail about the purpose of and "school of thought" behind why they felt it was an essential right for individuals to possess arms. Our Supreme Court also held up the individual's right to keep and bear arms, effectively making the "well regulated militia" phrasing/question a moot point.

    Granted, we live in different times now. America has been around for 241 years and any citizen's right to own a firearm has been right there every step of the way without all this craziness where people are going into schools, concerts, night clubs, etc. and mowing people down. That is a new phenomenon that's only occurred over the last 30 years or so. Food for thought.

    I do agree though, that even though it is my Right, I still think that it should be treated more like a privilege. In other words, like in your Canada, anyone (who's a citizen and not a felon) can purchase a firearm, but only on the condition that they meet certain requirements.

    Also, regarding your comment of "What blows me away". Seriously? Show some class, man! We're talking about a serious issue and you make jokes like that?

    I'm kidding! I laughed my ass off.
     
    #16732 Jama, Feb 22, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2018
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  13. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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  14. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I've got no problem with her writing down her memories of the event, but what I *do* mind is that it was presented as if she had written it down at the time in 2006, and it wasn't discovered this was NOT the case until someone realized the company that made the paper she wrote her notes on wasn't around until 2016. IOW, the model and "the media" were trying to deceive us.
     
  15. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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  16. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    Well, it wasn't presented that way to me. I read the story and instantly wondered why they didn't say when the notes were written. The lack of a timeline made me tentatively guess the notes were not contemporaneous. It was irritating to me that they didn't say one way or the other.

    But the model herself I think just wrote down what happened for the person who asked her to do it. Those two parties would have know this was her recollections. She didn't know her notes would be plastered all over the news. She thought someone was going to use them to write a news story.
     
  17. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I agree the model herself may not have planned it to look like those were her prior notes, but the person who interviewed her did, and I didn't feel like that was made clear at all. There have been many studies on memory that show our memory is NOT a fixed thing, but more like a framework we fill in the gaps of, so something written down years later may not be at all what happened at the time.

    The second example study in this link really illustrates that well, and is why I object so stridently to this type of thing.

    https://www.simplypsychology.org/loftus-palmer.html
     
  18. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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    ""We must be contented to travel on towards perfection, step by step. We must be contented with the ground which [the new] Constitution will gain for us, and hope that a favorable moment will come for correcting what is amiss in it." --Thomas Jefferson to the Count de Moustier, 1788. ME 7:13"


    The Constitution was meant to be a living document. There have already been additions and subtractions as the nation grows and changes. The second amendment is no more carved in stone than anything else, and can be amended for the good of the people.

    Only a crazy fringe is asking to get rid of every weapon everywhere. But there are some weapons that are inherently too dangerous to allow the average citizen to have without restriction. In my opinion and for many other people, assault rifles fall into that category.
     
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  19. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    The Las Vegas shooter couldn't have been stopped by conventional methods, as he gave no indication of what he was planning. This kid though? Look at all the times society COULD have done something to stop him, but no one in authority did anything. This shooting could probably have been prevented if our society got back to holding people accountable for their actions on all levels instead of just worrying about infringing on people's "rights".

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/s...rned-about-nikolas-cruz/ar-BBJtIAn?li=BBnb7Kz
     
  20. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    When Russian mudaks forget that location is a big deal.
    [​IMG]

    Proof that they are pretending to be Americans, so they can divide our country.
    And yet,Donald is still not enforcing the sanctions


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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