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Time for Trump to go

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Jul 20, 2015.

  1. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    https://apple.news/ALwHpLsq7TT6V7Njzogazig
    A recording of Petroleum execs surfaced that caught them laughing about how much access they have to the Whitehouse after trump picked one of their lawyers as second of interior of energy. He is now being promoted to secretary.


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  2. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of appointments, he just picked his equivalent in the economics community to be the new fed and people are shaking their heads. He is a right wing advocate that has been proven wrong and lied but since there is no consequence he just continues.

    https://apple.news/Aflix1QT3TV6J5W6Xb61zqg
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  3. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    oh my god
     
  4. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    WASHINGTON — I got a call at 3 p.m. on Friday from the Washington electric company telling me that a manhole in front of my house was smoking, that the underground cable to my house had burned up because it was old and that all the power in my house was out.

    “I can’t come home now,” I told the electric guy. I was extremely busy doing what everyone else in town was doing — nothing. Waiting. My house was the least of it — the whole city was short-circuiting.

    After word spread that Robert Mueller was going to deliver his report to the Justice Department at noon on Friday, a fog of anxiety crept in on little cat feet. (Sorry, Carl Sandburg.) After the president flew off to Mar-a-Lago, the skies darkened and rain pelted down.

    We drank coffee and waited.

    We ate burgers and waited.

    We watched basketball and waited for Mueller’s March Madness.

    All day, cable chatterers ranted about this being a significant moment in American history, but no one was sure yet what the significance was. As William Goldman once said of Hollywood, “Nobody knows anything.” And as Tom Petty sang, “The waiting is the hardest part.”

    Democrats yearned to have Mueller scream “Collusion!” like Marlon Brando once screamed “Stella!” And come to the podium to announce: “This is a real national emergency. The president is a Russian agent and needs to go immediately, along with his family.”

    They wished Bobby Boy Scout would go up to the Capitol and act like Rachel McAdams’s Regina George in “Mean Girls,” when she strides down the halls of the school scattering pages into the air that she had copied from the dishy Burn Book.

    No chance. The 74-year-old, an Ivy League graduate and a decorated Marine in Vietnam, is so meticulous that he would not even deviate to wear a blue shirt when he ran the F.B.I., seeing that as compromising his integrity. He has run the only disciplined, airtight operation in the undisciplined, leaky Trump era.

    Not even Rudy Giuliani, the president’s lawyer, knew what was happening when The Times’s Katie Rogers tracked him down at the Trump hotel at 1:30 p.m., as he sat at a table in the lobby and worked his cellphone trying to get information.

    No one, from the president on down, knew exactly when the report would come or what it would say. With his usual bravado about his base, Trump told Fox’s Maria Bartiromo that “people will not stand for it” if the report was damning.

    All we really knew was that this was a pivotal moment, not only for Trump but also for his Javert. If the special counsel delivered a weak gruel, after all the time, money, newsprint and digital space lavished on it, people would demand to know why he hadn’t pulled the plug long ago.

    By Friday morning, White House officials had been feeling better and Democrats who had once fantasized that Mueller would put Trump in a jumpsuit to match his hair began to emphasize that it was their congressional investigations and New York prosecutors that were going to bring Trump to justice.

    Still, no one knew for sure.

    It was not thought that Trump would be indicted, because Justice Department rules say a president can’t be indicted. So, the question was: Would Mueller imply that the only thing that saved Trump from an obstruction charge was the fact that he was sitting in the Oval Office? How much evidence would Mueller show that Trump actually tried to obstruct justice?

    As Happy Hour approached, Attorney General William Barr notified White House and congressional leaders that Mueller had delivered his report. The two Republicans are good friends who go back decades, a fact that startled Trump when Barr mentioned it during his confirmation hearings. (When Barr was attorney general the first time, under George H.W. Bush, he was Mueller’s boss, when Mueller led the criminal division.)

    In his letter to the leaders of the House and Senate Judiciary Committees, Barr said he might be able to brief them on the main conclusions of the report this weekend. The Justice Department said no more indictments were coming in the Russia investigation. Could Don Jr. and Jared have shaken off the bloodhounds?

    The scene Friday was far more occluded than the media hullabaloo on Sept. 9, 1998, when two dark vans pulled up to Capitol Hill with 36 boxes containing Ken Starr’s report on presidential chicanery.

    Starr was a star leaker and showboat, and journalists and the public were quickly able to get their hands on the document on which the fate of the Republic was hanging. It was something of a shock to learn that the supposedly dignified independent counsel — who was once on a shortlist for the Supreme Court — had delivered a 445-page bodice ripper, a trite story of an office affair in all its seamy particulars, told with such sanctimony that it was redolent of Nathaniel Hawthorne.

    It was clear that the sins recorded were not black enough to merit impeachment. Politicians in Washington have been having illicit sex and lying about it since George Washington slept here.

    But that didn’t stop Republicans from impeaching Bill Clinton that December. In the end, the reputation of Starr and the hypocritical Republicans, some of whom were having their own affairs with young government aides, suffered. And the country suffered as well. Clinton came out more popular, until #MeToo caught up with him.

    As much as Trump will spin victory and claim it’s all over, Friday was not the end of what the president tweeted was “the World’s most expensive Witch Hunt.” Democrats, aflame with investigative zeal, demanded that the report be made public and all of Mueller’s files be turned over to Congress.

    Mueller may be winding down, but the Democrats are just getting wound up.

    @MaureenDowd) and join me on Facebook.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/22/...l?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

     
  5. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    It’s been over 24 hours, and Trump is still quiet on twitter.
    Yet, last night, Lindsey Graham led a chant of “lock her up”, in the ballroom, to all the guests.

    Maybe Clinton should have use What’s App, instead of a secured personal server.


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  6. PepperAnn

    PepperAnn Well-Known Member

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    Lindsey Graham is such a sellout.
     
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  7. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    This guy has made the most sense so far, as to the Mueller report.
    [​IMG]

    Also, Mueller sent more reports to SDNY, so indictments may be still coming. Just at a state level.


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  8. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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    No, Mueller is required by law to report any impeachable offenses to Congress. He didn't report any to Congress.

    https://www.apnews.com/83d570e5100640f7bf8245045e7c6aee

    In a Saturday conference call to strategize on next steps, Delaware Sen. Chris Coons, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, issued a warning for his fellow Democrats, some of whom have pinned high political hopes on Mueller’s findings: “Once we get the principal conclusions of the report, I think it’s entirely possible that that will be a good day for the president and his core supporters.”
     
  9. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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  10. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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  11. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    Is rather see the Mueller report.


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  12. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    I don't *think* that's true about Mueller having to report impeachable offenses to Congress. First of all, Mueller doesn't have to report anything to Congress--he reports to the Attorney General.

    Secondly, this is all the regulations say about Mueller's report to the Attorney General:

    At the conclusion of the Special Counsel’s work, he or she shall provide the Attorney General with a confidential report explaining the prosecution or declination decisions reached by the Special Counsel.

    As I'm sure you know, the Attorney General's Office has a policy to not indict a sitting president. So *maybe* that's why Mueller submitted no finding on obstruction or conspiracy one way or the other to the Attorney General.

    https://www.vox.com/2019/2/22/18176845/mueller-report-explained-trump-russia-investigation

    Personally, if I were the prosecutor, I wouldn't want to indict the children until the father was out of office and no longer able to pardon them. Also, it may be preferable to make no conclusions about conspiracy regarding the president himself until he is out of office. Waiting avoids Supreme Court hoopla on whether the president can pardon himself, which is what could happen at this stage if prosecution went forward.

    Some people are saying the reason Trump wants a second term is because he avoids the consequences of conspiracy for another four years. Michael Cohen thinks Trump will refuse to give up the presidency even then. And that's probably why: ability to indict.
     
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  13. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    And considering Mueller turned over many, many reports to SDNY and a Virginia court, means that he is passing the buck onto them to prosecute or not. His job was to find if Trump had dealings with Russia. He did his job.
     
  14. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    But we KNOW Trump had dealings with Russia.

    So what I don't know now is (1) whether those dealings did not rise to a level that would make a prosecutable case, or (2) whether those dealings certainly did rise to that level, but Mueller is following the policy to not discuss anything leading to indicting a sitting president. Maybe Mueller would be thrilled to turn everything over to Congress so they can assess whether the dealings rise to a level that even Republicans would agree are impeachable.

    Mueller did his job, and I am eternally grateful. But the suspense is still killing me.
     
  15. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    Ah, so Barr made the ultimate conclusions. Um, no. If it's not Mueller himself, I want it to be Congress.
     
  16. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    WASHINGTON — Top House Democrats, anxiously awaiting the findings of the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, insisted on Sunday that their own investigations must go on regardless of whether the Justice Department accuses President Trump of wrongdoing.

    Expecting the “principal conclusions” of Mr. Mueller’s 22-month investigation to be made public by Attorney General William P. Barr as soon as Sunday afternoon but lacking any information on its findings, they sought to play down Mr. Mueller’s investigation into Russia’s election interference and possible ties to the Trump campaign as a relatively narrow endeavor that does not relieve Congress of its own oversight responsibility.

    “The job of Congress is much broader than the job of special counsel,” Representative Jerrold Nadler of New York, the House Judiciary Committee chairman, said on “Fox News Sunday.” “The special counsel was looking and can only look for crimes. We have to protect the rule of law. We have to look for abuses of power. We have to look for obstruction of justice. We have to look for corruption.”

    Mr. Nadler said that Congress must see Mr. Mueller’s full report and evidence — not just a summary from Mr. Barr — and that he would use a subpoena and take the fight to the Supreme Court if necessary to secure those.

    Mr. Nadler, whose committee would oversee a potential impeachment of the president, said it was “way too early” to discuss such impeachment.

    Republicans, meanwhile, were eager to portray Democrats as already disappointed by the mystery report and poised to overreach their authority in a desperate effort to damage Mr. Trump politically.

    * * * *
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/24/...action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
     
  17. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    “I don’t want a summary of the Mueller report,” tweeted Bernie Sanders. “I want the whole damn report.”

    Kamala Harris echoed that sentiment saying, “The Mueller report needs to be made public, the underlying investigative materials should be handed over to Congress, and Barr must testify. That is what transparency looks like. A short letter from Trump’s hand-picked Attorney General is not sufficient.”

    “Congress voted 420-0 to release the full Mueller report,” Elizabeth Warren chimed in. “Not a ‘summary’ from his handpicked Attorney General. AG Barr, make the full report public. Immediately.”

    Nancy Pelosi, Don Cheadle, Rosie O’Donnell, George Takei also voiced their opinion on Twitter demanding we see the report, while others like Rudolph Giuliani backed Trump.

    “It’s a complete exoneration of the President,” Giuliani told CNN. “The President did not do anything wrong.

    Read the tweets below. We will update with more reactions as they come in.

    https://deadline.com/2019/03/donald...rs-kamala-harris-elizabeth-warren-1202581633/
     
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  18. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    What Barr’s letter about the Mueller report says and doesn’t say.
    By Jennifer Rubin, Opinion writer
    March 24 at 4:57 PM

    Attorney General William P. Barr released his letter setting forth the principal conclusions relating to the Russia probe conducted by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III.

    Let’s first be clear about what the letter does not say.

    It does not say whether Mueller found a preponderance of evidence of crimes. (The criminal standard, beyond a reasonable doubt, is much higher.)

    It does not say whether Mueller found President Trump lied to the American people.

    It does not say Mueller exonerated the president; to the contrary, it says the opposite. It does not say anything about possible financial crimes under investigation in the Southern District of New York.

    It does not say why there were more than 100 contacts between the Trump presidential campaign and transition team and Russia-linked operatives, or why so many people denied there were contacts.

    The report does not say whether Trump and his associates welcomed the help of a foreign hostile power.

    It does not say anything about possible state prosecutions.

    Now, for what it does say:
    • There were two main Russian efforts, one through primarily through social media and the other via email hacks disseminated through intermediaries such as WikiLeaks, to interfere with our election. If we accept Mueller’s investigation, the claim that there is uncertainty about who interfered with the election and on whose behalf is false.
    • Mueller did not find that Trump or those with his campaign conspired or coordinated with Russia to interfere with the election.
    • Mueller found a list of actions under the part of his investigation into obstruction of justice but did not reach a prosecutorial decision. Mueller explicitly did not exonerate Trump of obstruction. Trump’s appointed attorney general and Deputy Attorney General Rod J. Rosenstein decided it was not sufficient to establish that an obstruction-of-justice offense occurred.
    The demand for the complete report is overwhelming. Only the report can answer questions such as:
    • What was the series of actions that Mueller looked at when investigating obstruction?
    • Why did Mueller decide not to opine one way or the other on obstruction?
    • Did he find a preponderance of evidence of obstruction?
    • Why did Barr and Rosenstein conclude there was no obstruction-of-justice crime?
    • Did Mueller not find evidence of coordination/conspiracy, or did he rule it out (disprove it)?
    • What explains all the Russian contacts?
    • What financial incentives, if any, did Trump have to favor Russia?
    • Did the Russian government attempt to cultivate Trump as an asset or have leverage over him?
    • Why did Michael Flynn lie about Russia contacts?
    • Why did the president wait so long to fire Flynn?
    • Did any of Trump’s family members or associates lie to Congress, and if so, why is there as yet no indictment?
    To his credit, Barr seems to understand that demand for the report is bipartisan and compelling. He writes that he must separate out grand jury testimony and other material that could “impact other ongoing matters.” WAIT. What?! If Mueller came across evidence of crimes that the Southern District of New York or other parts of Justice are investigating, shouldn’t we know if the president is under investigation?

    However, in a major respect, Barr’s action in declaring no crime of obstruction is inexplicable. Because it is the Justice Department’s position that Trump cannot be indicted as a sitting president, there is no requirement — indeed, it is inappropriate — for Barr to weigh in. The job is up to Congress, according to Barr’s own department guidelines. Suspicions about Barr’s willingness to clear the president, based on a memo he wrote to the Justice Department before being nominated as attorney general, look well-founded.

    We know have an entirely untenable situation: The special counsel did not render a judgment on obstruction but clearly found evidence thereof. Trump’s own attorney general and deputy attorney general wouldn’t prosecute (duh), but other independent prosecutors could certainly find that information sufficient to charge Trump now or later. Moreover, the evidence might be so compelling as to reach the standard of high crimes and misdemeanors.

    We are, as I suggested, at the end of the beginning. But the investigation into the president is nowhere near completion.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...eport-says-doesnt-say/?utm_term=.a7cce7e2a7dc
     
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  19. Jama

    Jama Well-Known Member

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    Jesus! Is Lindigo ever going to give this shit a rest? The never-ending posts? The delusions? Why would anyone want to be this obsessed with Trump? It's nothing short of embarrassing and it's gross. Just accept the results for what they are and move on.
     
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  20. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Mueller found no evidence of collusion - what this whole thing was supposed to be about.

    Nadler says it's not good enough? I see a major backlash coming in the next election if Congress keeps going with this. LOL, people have invested so heavily in saying the President was colluding with a foreign power, a two-year investigation says he didn't and... you want to keep investigating? Give it a rest and do some governing, already.

    The obstruction thing is a hoot. He was found NOT to have colluded with Russia. You're going to try and charge him with obstructing an investigation when there was no primary crime committed? When Barr stated the WH didn't restrict Mueller's investigation in any way? THAT sounds like a winner.:rolleyes:
     
    #24140 Morgotha, Mar 24, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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