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Negan's “Promise “ to Alpha vs Carol's “Promise” to Negan

Discussion in 'The Walking Dead Television Series' started by Virginia Blake, Apr 17, 2020.

  1. Virginia Blake

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    Compare and Contrast the similarities and the differences



    Negan promised his loyalty to Alpha and then executed her.



    Yet, many fans are outraged that Carol reneged on the deal with Negan.

    But Negan was justified to betray Alpha.



    What do you think & Why?





     
  2. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't outraged. I agreed with Carol. He took his sweet ass time. He should have done it before the Whisperers attacked Hilltop.

    Carol didn't need to go back with him, she owed him nothing. Negan could go back to Alexandria and tell them what he did, without her. His story would have made sense and could be proven to be true.
     
  3. Virginia Blake

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    We view this scene pretty mych the same way. Carol outsmarted him and used him to get what she wanted. Negan is not used to being dupped by others and it was a bitter pill indeed. She owed him nothing. What it does show about Negan is very important; as his world is based on him alone. . It's his total lack of understanding of others feelings as he actually thinks that after Glenn & Abe, he could ever be treated like an equal ( a superior is what he wants) . Such as saying to Daryl "Only kill people that deserve it"!!! LOL. What an unfeeling thing to say HA!! Anyway, Carol ended up telling him that people are not going to forget what he did. The joke is on him. Such a simple concept and he missed it completely from the beginning
     
  4. Chr1s

    Chr1s Well-Known Member

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    Well to be fair to Negan, he really seemed like he was trying to convince Alpha to do the right thing. Almost as if once he was part of the Whisperers, he wasn't 100% going to kill Alpha. He figured he could try to fix the situation, maybe he saw himself in her and figured if he could be redeemed and see the good side of Alexandria, maybe she could too. And only followed through with killing her because he realized she was absolutely going to kill Lydia and therefore she was not capable of being redeemed.
     
  5. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    Remember, in Negan’s mind Rick’s people deserved to be punished/killed for what happened at the outpost. I think Daryl can see that. There’s no point arguing it.

    And whilst Negan's way of coping with his wife’s death was stripping himself of all emotions and conscience, we could see some traits of humanity returning in him. He has shown understanding of Michonne, compassion for Lydia, affection for Judith.

    But he’s also a narcissistic asshole and nothing will ever change that if eight years in prison didn’t weed it out of him.
     
  6. Virginia Blake

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  7. Virginia Blake

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    Agreed that in the situation he was in, he had to think quick on his feet. I tend to go with what Lydia said to him later about he killed her mother for a selfish reason. He wanted a reward and was outsmarted by Carol.
     
  8. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    That’s very insightful of how Negan was considering what to make of Alpha, comparing his and her leadership and motives.

    He was taking too long because he wasn’t sure. He knows Daryl and Carol were right to call him out on the timescale, but he wasn’t going to admit it. He admitted enough to Daryl that he could read between the lines though. And there is no fooling Carol.
     
  9. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    I think Lydia was partially right. The way I saw it, Negan didn’t just kill Alpha to score a brownie point with Carol and the Alexandrians. He killed her to protect Lydia, Also, because like Chr1s said, he saw she was past reason and humanity. He killed her and with her he killed this little pipe-dream he had going, that perhaps he could have some kind of future with her and this lot. He killed her and with that he made his final decision to side with the Alexandrians.
     
  10. Virginia Blake

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    I tend to support the other notion of a "pipe dream" being what he thought Carol was going to get for him: 'Unconditional love" from Alexandria;.now that's pipe dream that shows how far out of touch he is and his total inability to empathize with others. That Lineup can never be erased nor forgotten; at least by friends/family people in a "real" world. If Negan really had remorse for it, he'de have said so. Hard to describe something you don't and can't feel. As for time spent with Whisperers; he overstayed because he DID enjoy the power. Admitted that one truth to Daryl. A smart fellow would take the Rebel Factions of the Whisperers (after the war) and become their Alpha as a Savior/Whisperer Hybrid.
     
  11. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Negan had any illusions that if he kills Alpha, all his previous shit would be just forgotten, but he saw the logic and potential in what Carol was saying. Helping out the group in such a way was going to highlight his loyalty to the Alexandrians as well as his willingness to serve the community, and an undeniable act of trustworthiness, that this is how he's used his freedom.

    Of course in true Negan fashion he had to make this a lot more complicated by stretching out his freedom and testing its boundaries and other potentials, but in the end he decided to go with the path Carol outlined for him, because all considered, that is still the best option for him. Much as he enjoys respect and power and privileges, to his own surprise maybe as well, he has lost the desire to start afresh again with a new bunch of degenerates and play the same old 'Saviors' game he's played once and ultimately lost in it. Whilst the leopard won't change his spots, this is not the same leopard that got imprisoned eight years ago.
     

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