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Coronavirus

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by surviving, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    Good news
    [​IMG]


    The truth is out there
     
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  2. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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  3. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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  4. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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  5. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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  6. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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  7. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    This is a good example off why I experience FOX as sleezy.

    "The donation made the group one of the state party’s largest contributors in that cycle. Three of the hospital association’s top officials separately gave more than $150,000 to Cuomo’s campaign between 2015 and 2018, the outlet reported."

    Yeah, between 2015 and 2018. That's the first thing. And then, secondly, is there anything weird about those donations? Do health organizations and/or rich people so rarely make political contributions in support of their political positions that this is suspicious? Pfft.

    And, finally, is it odd that Cuomo would give immunity in a pandemic to the providers who take care of people who are so ill that they can no longer live independently and/or their families can no longer care for them? Not to me. Not even a little bit.

    Keep in mind that I HATE the entire nursing home paradigm. I think they are in it to make money, not to provide excellent care for the vulnerable. I think they are sociopathic vultures. (And, simultaneously, I thank you, Sharpie, for your loving family that devotes itself to truly caring for people.)

    Americans have a reputation for suing anyone for anything, and, in this case, they are in deep grief and outrage that their loved ones have unnecessarily died. Of course there would be endless lawsuits here. The mercenary despicable nursing homes really did need the protection. This insanely infectious virus was already upon us before the alternate medical facilities were set up.

    And, yes, that happened in large part because the safeguards that were in place to protect us from an inevitable future pandemic had been eliminated. Maybe it would have happened anyway. But getting rid of the institutional knowledge and systems that the U.S. has been renowned for, did ensure the calamity that is upon us.

    It is STILL upon us. It is STILL growing. Because our idiot president is STILL not supporting as norms the behaviors that could get us out. He WANTS people to put themselves into the worst possible situations of sitting in rooms for long periods of time in ways that create superspreading consequences. He wants it for religious services, he wants it for children in schools, he wants it for the Republican convention. He cares NOTHING about keeping Americans safe and healthy.

    I just wanted to get that out of my system. I don't want to debate my position even though we are here in the debate section. So I won't be reading replies or responses, except *maybe* from you, surviving. I'm not ranting at you. I am just ranting. <3
     
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  8. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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    It has been recommended for awhile with about 1/2 of people wearing masks but now mandatory. Stores will ask you to leave if you're not wearing one starting tomorrow.
     
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  9. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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  10. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    It's disgusting to see the backlash from some against masks too. It's not a big deal. If you're going to be in a public place, and there are people around, put on a damn face covering. But we have people getting sick, and some dying, because of stupidity and selfishness.
     
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  11. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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    Yes we have that problem here in VA. They argue constitutional rights. What about the government's obligation to protect you?
    Masks are not an extreme burden if a burden at all. The benefits outweigh the negatives immensely.
     
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  12. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    That "Constitutional Right" stuff is bunk, IMO. You have a Constitutional Right to own and use guns, you do NOT have the right to shoot wildly in the air at a football game. IOW, your right to "keep and bear arms" stops where your chance of causing harm to someone else starts.

    Therefore, IMO, you should have the right NOT to wear a mask by yourself, but when you are around others and the mask may prevent you from infecting them? Your right to NOT wear one goes away as it may be endangering others.
     
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  13. Jama

    Jama Well-Known Member

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    Ah.... but that's the key phrase, isn't it? MAY BE. Do you honestly think that if there were some type of civil rights court case where an individual's rights to not wear a mask was being decided, that the person's rights would not be upheld based on a "may be"?

    The burden of proof goes to those who claim that not wearing a mask endangers others. Yet, almost all of the masks out there can be proven to be ineffective against the virus. Furthermore the one mask that can stop it, the N-95, has to be properly fitted to one's face for it to be truly effective. Dr. Fauci and the CDC even claimed that the masks wouldn't help, then "the experts" pivoted on that logic and said they would.... How would something like that hold up in a civil rights case? Answer: Not well.

    Then there's the argument that if social distancing works and if the masks work, then why are we all going through these restrictive stay-at-home orders and lock downs? If by some other-worldly miracle, masks are proven to be 100% effective, then people who've lost their business due to these lock down measures, are going to sue the crap out of anything that ends with a .gov

    And don't tell me that they can't because of the constitution because there's ways around that. Especially when a lot of these gubernatorial edicts have been in a constitutional gray area.
     
  14. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I'm having trouble thinking of what that civil rights case would be. The right of someone to go in to a government space (like a court) and not wear a mask?
    I doubt if the non-mask-wearers rights would be upheld, personally. There are studies out now showing the benefit of masks i.e. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7191274/ , which is likely why Fauci, etc., changed their minds, and I'm sure the State would be able to come up with respected physicians who would testify on their uses' behalf. Who then would the court side with? Respected and personally disinterested authorities saying this would benefit the public health, or some raving headcase claiming it's their right to infect their neighborhood?

    On the masks, especially homemade ones, they are likely going to be ineffective at preventing the spread of very small viral particles, but are more effective at stopping big droplets people can breathe out when talking. So you're wearing the mask not only to protect yourself, but to protect others.

    I don't see social distancing vs. lockdowns as one not requiring the other. I'd say it's a situation of masks and hand washing and social distancing providing some protection, and lockdowns being assumed to provide even more. If masks were 100% effective you wouldn't need a lockdown or anything else other than a mask.

    On the lockdowns in general, I think they were a good idea to try and stop the spread of disease before we knew much about it. At this point, though, it appears population density and keeping people together in a closed space is the real problem, and not the interaction of people per se. That being the case, IMO the lockdowns in rural or other sparsely populated locales should be removed, and only crowded venues be shut down.

    The "what to do" doesn't really have one right answer. Wearing masks, handwashing, and social distancing will likely slow the spread of infection, saving lives at the cost of the economy. Saying "to heck with it" and not doing *anything* about the virus at all will allow the economy to prosper but likely will cost more lives. Which of those is the "correct" answer? It depends on what your goals are.
     
    #1934 Morgotha, May 29, 2020
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
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  15. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    The US is no longer with WHO.


    The truth is out there
     
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  16. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    A Bollywood actor, teaching how to make a balaclava out of a t-shirt to protect against C-19

    https://twitter.com/mrcruzv3/status/1266682952458608641?s=21


    Step by step

    Step 1: Pull the T-shirt over your head until the neck opening lines up with your nose.

    Step 2: Fold the bottom of the shirt up once, and double-fold it down across your face.

    Step 3: Criss-cross the back of the T-shirt once and pull up over the top of your head.

    The truth is out there
     
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  17. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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  18. Doodlebug

    Doodlebug Active Member

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  19. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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    It is a thing and anywhere we gather in groups has potential to spread it. SARS-CoV-2 is the equivalent of the Spanish Flu of 1918.
     
  20. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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