I saw an interesting movie years ago about society being able to detect a crime before it happened therefore apprehending the individual before he could commit it. We don’t live in that made up universe. We can usually only react to something once it has happened unless someone with pre-existing knowledge of some premeditated crime speaks up.

No one could change the scenario of what occurred leading up to Floyd’s death. The police in charge had to make decisions as to how they would handle it at that moment. They chose incorrectly. This was a non violent crime. Their lives weren’t in danger but they chose to escalate and then murder a man they were incapable of handling in a reasonable manner. The minute he said he couldn’t breath, even prior to the knee, medical personnel should have been called in. Period. Were they stupid? Did they not keep up with what was happening around the country in other similar instances? Did they not recognize that putting their knee on someone’s neck and keeping it there well after the apprehended man was unresponsive could prove to be dangerous? If they had an once of common sense maybe Mr. Floyd would still be alive. We won’t know until the trials but there’s a whole bunch of would have, could have, should haves there as well. At least they’re still with us to answer some of those questions.

We’ve already discussed the idea that crime is steadily increasing in major cities and it has been disputed. No change there.

I believe the protests in Portland morphed from initially being solely centered on BLM to a fight against heavy handed, Federal involvement trying to subvert a citizens right to protest.
How much of what happened violently in Portland was a result of the Feds being present? Would things have fizzled out sooner if they hadn’t been there?

Your “just say no” approach to complex issues is naive at best.
You say we’re better off without violent criminals and drug addicts but we’ve got both and I say working on the root causes that create such individuals will yield better results than just trying to round them up and incarcerate them.

 

Of course I don’t believe in trying to kill anyone in the midst of a protest. That’s not peaceful, but damn, the police have really roiled their relations with the people they’re supposed to serve in Portland if they want to roast ‘em alive.

That’s too bad. Ideally, the police and the community should be working together to make it safer for everyone. I hope the leaders there can find a way to bring both sides to a better place.

 

What you’re missing is that the way Floyd lived his life prior to and leading up to his arrest is irrelevant in that no one has a time machine that can reset the clock. What did matter was the manner in which the arresting police conducted the arrest. The ball was in their court and they dropped it big time. At least we agree on that.

Where we differ is that you’ve given up. You see the glass as half empty and I see it as half full. While “compassion and understanding” certainly can’t hurt, we need to look seriously at root causes, look at what programs are helping and which aren’t and tweak the process.

If I was in charge, and let’s face it, I’m as qualified as Betsy DeVos, lol, I would direct monies toward strengthening the public school systems and supporting programs geared towards helping families see that their children stay the course with the goal of graduation. Then I would make community college more assessable and/or partner with the trades for more inclusion in apprentice programs. Education is the key but that’s Only my opinion. For the most part teachers do what they can but schools need more resources. Millions of dollars are wasted each year federally which could be going to our children.

Sure you have your time line and facts right with the Feds? Check this article out by NPR....

https://www.npr.org/sections/public...alated-and-why-news-consumers-were-frustrated

 

Jesus H. Roosevelt Christ! You’re as much an agitator as those you decry. And what was all that BS about Franco? Sure...and Mussolini made the trains run on time, blah, blah. You would rather live under a fascist police state so you could walk from one end of a city to the other unmolested? I see it as a bad trade off. Besides it seems that there’s only a small contingent who are actually destructive but rather than weed them out, everyone is treated the same by officers who use that as an excuse to quell the protests, IMO.

I could just see you if you were alive during the American Revolution, “They threw all that tea into the harbor and tarred and feathered those tax agents! King George better send over more troops to to put an end to all this looting and lawlessness!” Lol.

From Oregon Live, some local coverage of what’s happening now in Portland:

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland...ue-for-73rd-day-throughout-city-saturday.html

 

Again, Mr. Floyd's behavior prior to his being arrested is immaterial. The issue at hand is what happened once he was taken into custody. If justice is served, Mr. Chauvin will get a chance to find out how tough a guy he really is inside the walls of a state penitentiary.

Did I say it was going to be easy? LOL. Doing the right thing isn't always easy.

 

Sounds to me like you were eating that crap up, lol

I don't live in Portland so I'm getting my information from third parties, one being Oregon Live. It said in the article I cited:

A small group of demonstrators lit a fire inside the Portland police union building Saturday, sparking a riot declaration by police, who then advanced on the hundreds who gathered nearby.

The night marked the second time someone had set a fire inside the police union building, which has turned into a regular site of demonstrations against police violence and systemic racism that began in late May. Though both fires were quickly extinguished, the flames reignited criticism of the relatively few protesters who provoke police with property damage and other tactics.

Several other demonstrations also occurred Saturday throughout the city, and each was peaceful.


Even within the crowd gathered outside the police union headquarters in North Portland, the group of 20 or so people that targeted the building was significantly outnumbered by a few hundred others. The distinction between the two groups disappeared when dozens of officers arrived and advanced on the crowd.

Now, it's unclear if there is a designated strike group which causes all the trouble and if it's the same people or different ones each night. Not being there, I can't gauge the "vibe" of the crowd. Do the majority of the other protesters know who is doing the damage? Are they tacitly approving of their actions or are they just as frustrated. Are they even members of BLM or are they right wing infiltrators who want to keep the chaos at a high level? Maybe if people know the identity of these vandals, some one should give them up, then we'd have some answers and maybe some resolution.

Wow! My turn for the time capsule game. I'll do you one better. I propose that the indigenous people of North America should have let the Pilgrims die of starvation and disease, their colony burned to the ground. They should have also destroyed Jamestown like they most likely did Roanoke since the settlers at Jamestown were the first to bring African slaves into this country. Who knows how many years that would have given the native inhabitants before European countries attempted colonization again. If each time Europeans tried and they were driven back to the sea the course of history would have been much different since they might never have obtained slaves in the first place as colonization would seem too perilous. In this time line we might have never gotten to the tea!

 

Minority Report

Incorrect. Mostly. You're twisting it around to make it seem as if these people are only doing what they're doing BECAUSE of heavy handed actions by the Feds. They were doing this stuff long before federal intervention and it's well documented. Any assertion that the feds tipped the scales and it's "really their fault", is either ignorant or it's politically motivated spin.

Yes the protests were spurred on by the murder of George Floyd and the BLM movement, but it quickly devolved into rioting for the sake of rioting and to promote radical agendas that cannot be reasonably acheived in a short period of time. The Marxists who dwell in their mother's basements know this too, so they use any lack of action by authorities to justify further "resistance".

Portland has the biggest and most organized and aggressive antifa chappter in the nation. They were out sewing discord, setting fires, destroying property and engaging in routine harassment of anyone who wouldn't tow the line well before the stuff with the feds even started. Hell, even before George Floyd was murdered.

These people see Mayor Ted Wheeler, a very far left progressive mayor btw, as just as much an enemy as the feds or Trump or anyone trying to get in their way. They will punish and harm ANYONE that crosses them.These people are not fighting for their God-given rights, or victims of an oppressive system. They are domestic terrorists who are only interested in watching it all burn down.

I don't know where you're getting your information from (edit- I guess Oregon Live.... figures. Lol) about what is going on here in PDX, but I recommend you search for more reliable sources that might offer more truthful insight about what is actually happening around here.

 

Mayor Lightfoot really is something else. I wish the polling research outfits would do a poll that asked people this question....

Who is the worst mayor in America?
Jenny Durkin
Lori Lightfoot
Ted Wheeler
Bill DeBlasio

I'd still select DeBlasio but the others are pulling out all the stops lately. Lol

 

First off, I wasn't deflecting per se, only trying to show that if slavery was the issue it could have been avoided long before we ever got to founding the US if the Indians hadn't been so trusting.

I don't know about that article you cited. The "expert" didn't know her history. Here's what was quoted from the article you cited:

"Well, African-Americans - actually, Africans and Native American people first met each other during the colonial era. So, that would have been in the 1500s when Africans were brought to the Americas as both slaves and as indentured servants."
.
Not exactly.

First enslaved Africans arrive in Jamestown, setting the stage for slavery in North America. On this day in 1619, “20 and odd” Angolans, kidnapped by the Portuguese, arrive in the British colony of Virginia and are then bought by English colonists.Aug 13, 2019

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/first-african-slave-ship-arrives-jamestown-colony

That was 12 years after Jamestown had been established in 1607. I maintain that If the Indians had annilated those settlers, there might not have been any slavery. The Pilgrims certainly didn't believe in having slaves although I would have let them die too if I had been a leader of the local native tribes.

But specifically answering your question. It was worth every ounce of tea in that ship because the ideals espoused by our founding fathers were exceptional forward thinking for that era. However, the reality didn't live up the the written words. All men are created equal meant only white men. It didn't include those of color and forget both white and black women. Certainly not the indigenous people whose lands were taken right out from under them.

The beauty of it is is that they were written and we have been struggling to live up to those words from our very beginning even if it was one small step at a time or an all engaging civil war that almost ripped our country apart. There's a saying that you have to crack a few eggs to make an omelet. If what we're going through right now leads to something improved on the other side, so be it.

 

Well, if you read me correctly, which I feel you didn't, I said it appeared to me that the protesters original intent to bring attention to police brutality against people of color had changed direction with the arrival of the Federal Forces. I can only make my conclusions based on what I read and I don't remember reading about large scale protests before the George Floyd murder ignited protests nation wide.To the average reader it seems that the BLM message in Portland was actually being overshadowed amidst everything else going on, and I don't doubt for a second that some vandalism was taking place prior to the arrival of the Feds. I mused whether or not the Feds exacerbated the situation by their presence bringing a new spotlight on the city and who doesn't love the spotlight.

As far as searching for reliable sources, it's not as if I typed in 'left leaning publications views on the Portland Protests'. I was actually searching for more information about the so called fires that trapped police in their station that Mo was so worked up about. and the articles by Oregon Live came up. I would have no way of knowing which way they leaned. Their account of the events seemed plausible to me and I figured being "local" they'd have a good perspective on what was happening.

Quite frankly who says your view of the matters are accurate. Are you there every night? Have you talked with the people...the wall of moms or Vets? Can you say with any certainty that the fire bugs and vandals aren't right wing plants to stir up more chaos?
Sure, you have your view point and OL writes theirs. From where I'm sitting across the country you both could be talking out of your ass but I got to go with the articles I can get my hands on.

Oh, and when you start talking about Antifa "chapters" it makes me go



cause the Antifa political movement is comprised of diverse autonomous groups. Not like they have a national headquarters. I know some of those groups can be violent bad asses but they're perfectly suited to oppose the ult right groups they encounter. However, If they're the ones responsible for the vandalism in Portland maybe they should step off and stop using the BLM protests for their own agenda. It's not their time now and they're getting the water muddy.