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Some craziness

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    You say, “what is an assault weapon?” It’s the same problem we have with what defines eligibility for “compulsory confinement”.

    OK then, let’s put forth some legal definitions in both categories and then act on both of them. How hard is that if people and the lawmakers they elect are serious about doing anything with either problem?

    Conservatives, as a whole don’t particularly favor supporting much of anything monetarily but simultaneously expect results. Unless you have a goose that lays golden eggs, taxpayers will have to do and that includes large corporations paying their fair share.
     
  2. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I'd be happy as defining an "assault weapon" as any hand-held firearm capable of fully automatic firing and enforce a ban on them. When it comes to semi-automatics and revolvers/ lever action guns, etc.? I just don't see the point.

    To quote the Huff Post:

    "
    At least 84 people have been killed and 119 have been injured so far this year in 86 shooting incidents involving assault-style rifles, according to data compiled by the Gun Violence Archive, a not-for-profit corporation that tracks gun violence. Those numbers include the casualties at Pulse nightclub over the weekend.

    There have been at least 267 incidents involving assault-style rifles in 2016, including reported weapons thefts, crimes in which the guns were brandished, arrests for illegal possession and other legal interventions in which they weren’t fired.

    Those deaths account for about 2 percent of the 6,153 gun deaths and less than 1 percent of the 12,560 gun injuries the Gun Violence Archive has counted so far this year. This tally consists largely of homicides and assaults, but also includes suicides that were part of a murder-suicide. It also counts accidental deaths, the majority of which involve handguns, not rifles.

    "

    So a few years ago when there was a large mass shooting, 84 people total were killed with "assault rifles". That's not many people in a country of 400 million, and I'd say that upending the Constitution for what is quite literally less than a "one in a million" event is the very definition of a waste of time, considering the other problems the country faces and won't be addressed in the process of "dealing" with this issue.

    Here's a couple of other things one *could* focus their energies on: opiod use and overdosage - that killed over 80,000 people last year, basically killing 1000 people for each person killed with "assault rifles". Why not work on that?

    There were about 10,000 deaths due to drunk drivers, or over 100 for each "assault weapon" death. How about putting more effort into stopping drunk driving?

    Even a modest increase in preventing either of the above will save many more lives than bringing the deaths due to "assault weapons" down to zero.
     
  3. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Assault rifle is defined as having some features declared unnecessary for home defense or hunting. Including removable magazines, collapsable stocks shortened barrels, fully automatic. Etc.. gun manufacturers just figure ways around it and third party manufacturers just sell modifications online. I support both gun rights and gun control. I think they should have recurring registration just like cars. You have to prove you still have it in your possession and its safe to operate legally. Why cant guns be the same. 100 Every four years doesn’t seem excessive. If its stolen, you have to report it in a timely manner and you have to bring it in for inspection on a regular basis. You still have the right to own it but have to show the responsibility maintain, store and operate it safely.


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  4. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    You actually WANT to pay a recurring fee every for years for something else? That's amazing. It's also amazing you'd want to spend additional time at a "gun DMV" if you didn't have to.

    Is it my place (or yours) to tell someone getting shot at how many bullets they *need* in their gun and how many bullets are too many? No. On the collapsible stock and shortened barrel, that seems MORE useful in a home setting than a military one, as making something short will make it less accurate at a distance which is the opposite of what a soldier traditionally needs, but would be great for "aiming" at someone who pops up right next to you. Big picture wise, if the military thought having a 1" barrel on their guns was the best thing to have, that's what we'd have now, but that's not the way our country (or any other as far as I know) does things. On the folding stock, moving something around in your house and being able to point it at someone would be aided by having something short - the collapsed stock - but expanding it like a rifle would still let people use it at a gun range or for hunting. I don't see how any of those are "bad", per se.

    Again, look at the numbers. The gun the Syrian shooter used is an AR15. There are currently 18 MILLION ar15s in the country, and there were only 89 murders with *all* assault rifles, so clearly only a tiny percentage of these guns will ever be used to commit crimes. That to me goes against saying these guns themselves are somehow irredeemably bad."

    Compare the numbers to handguns. Handguns kill many times over the number of people that "assault weapons" do. Rather than going after "assault weapons" what you should do is make a law saying every handgun has to have a barrel that is 3 feet long. That would likely cut down our urban crime rate by a LOT - well, if criminals decided to obey the law.
     
  5. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    What do people need AR15s for anyways?
    Do they really have any practical purpose except to commit crimes or mass shootings?
    Look, We’re gun owners ourselves. I’m not anti gun per se but I would be willing to sacrifice the AR 15 for the common good.
     
  6. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    My point would be that sacrificing AR15s wouldn't do much to help the common good as there really aren't many killings committed with them in the first place. There are plenty of better ways to save lives than by focusing on "assault weapons". It's really a straw man IMO to make you get worked up about something inconsequential and not pay attention to things that are actually important.

    On why they are needed? I don't know. Does anyone NEED a big gas-guzzling car? No, but they want them and in a free country should be allowed to buy them. I'd say same thing here.
     
  7. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    I don’t WANT to pay more but it would force me to decide whether i wanted to keep my gun that i haven’t touched in years. It would force me to actually look at it to make sure it was locked and not stolen. It would also force background checks more often. How many times have we heard about a shooter who would have failed a background check but had purchased their gun prior to being disqualified. Also being disqualified would appear on the next registration date instead of after a shooting. Yes handguns are more popular for crimes due to lower price and easy conceal ability. Thats why barrel length and collapsed stocks are qualifiers for assault weapons. High capacity magazines allow a shooter to let off a lot of rounds before needing to reload which are opportunities for officers to respond or victims to escape. If want want to keep their right to bear arms, they need to understand the responsibility that comes with it. The fact that guns are used in so many crimes shows that not everyone gets that and it screws things up for those of us that do.


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  8. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I like the idea of a waiting period before being able to buy a gun as some people who are angry might not be a week later, at least not angry enough to shoot someone.

    On the magazine size? I think that only affects a small amount of crimes. I don't think that most people who commit gun crimes go out there and try and shoot as many people possible randomly. They want to rob a liquor store and it goes bad, they see that one person they really hate, get in to an argument while intoxicated, etc., but in any event their shooting goal is on a basically singular person or event. They don't NEED 500 rounds of ammunition because they don't have a use for it.

    The only people who DO want to fire off rounds into a crowd are nuts, and they'd be better off stopped by institutionalizing them when they are found to be nuts, as leaving a psychotic killer on the streets without a high capacity gun is still going to get people killed, whereas committing him to an institution would not. IOW, start locking up the potentially violent loonies BEFORE they shoot people and they won't shoot people.
     
  9. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Thats a whole nother can o worms.


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  10. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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  12. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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  13. PepperAnn

    PepperAnn Well-Known Member

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    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. PepperAnn

    PepperAnn Well-Known Member

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  15. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    All I can say is I hope she has a bidet in her house!:rolleyes::eek:
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  16. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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  17. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    WOW! If you're missing the drama of daily soaps, a real-life drama played out in Sri Lanka where at the pageant for the 2021 Mrs. World champion (for married women) during the crowning of the new Mrs. World the winner of the 2020 Mrs. World got on stage and pulled the crown off her head saying that the "winner" was divorced and therefore wasn't eligible to win :eek:. She then placed the crown on the runner up's head who was clearly her choice for winner. The runner up actually accepted the crowno_O:rolleyes: and was "queen for a day". The actual winner though subsequently stated that while she was separated, she was still legally married, and the administrators are giving her crown and title back to her. How depressing, though. To have what should be a very happy day spoiled like that? Terrible!

    And as a follow-up, the 2021 winner said she was injured in the decrowning (not likely really true, IMO, as watching the video the 2020 winner was careful in the process, she didn't just rip it off her head) but in any event the 2020 winner was arrested for her behavior. What a show, though, how exciting must that have been to see live!



    https://www.foxnews.com/entertainme...sri-lanka-pulling-crown-head-alleged-injuries
     
    #5777 Morgotha, Apr 9, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  18. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    First thing I thought of too, lol,, but the bigger question is, how does she do anything? Now that she’s got the record, I would hope she’ll think about cutting those f**kers.
     
  19. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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  20. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    A couple of New Yorkers want to get married, but need to get the court's permission first. No, this isn't a 1950's era racial thing, this is today. This couple happens to be parent and child:eek:, which is what the holdup is. Ah, those crazy New Yorkers. I bet the judge will agree, though. After all, if a man can "identify" as a woman and actually legally be considered to be one, why can't a child "identify" as an unrelated woman (or man) and therefore have no impediment to marriage?

    "A New Yorker who wants to marry their own adult offspring is suing to overturn laws barring the incestuous practice, calling it a matter of "individual autonomy."

    The pining parent seeks to remain anonymous because their request is "an action that a large segment of society views as morally, socially and biologically repugnant," according to court papers.

    "Through the enduring bond of marriage, two persons, whatever relationship they might otherwise have with one another, can find a greater level of expression, intimacy and spirituality," the parent argues in the Manhattan federal court claim filed April 1."

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-york-parent-seeks-ok-to-marry-their-own-adult-child
     

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