Creepy, right? From another article:

However, Manhattan family and matrimonial law attorney Eric Wrubel said, “It’s never gonna fly. The closest you can come is Woody Allen, and that wasn’t his daughter, it was an adopted child whom he never adopted and it still turns people’s stomachs,” also noting that the incestuous couple still hasn’t sought out a marriage license yet. So since they haven’t been denied any rights, the lawsuit seems “premature.”

FYI, from the same article:

Under New York law, incest is a third-degree felony, punishable up to four years behind bars, and incestuous marriages aren’t recognized, with the spouses facing a fine or up to six months in jail. Potential spouses are actually required to list their birth parents, and according to the City Clerk’s Officer, there are, “no legal impediments to the marriage.”

https://rare.us/rare-news/new-york-parent-marrying-child/

 

Jokes about the south aside, i think its illegal in every state and territory.


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I thought it might be good to remind Mo. She seems to automatically think some outrageous lawsuit is going to overturn something that is universally agreed upon to be detrimental to society. Why? Cause it’s NY state? As she would say, c’mon man.

 

Lol


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Like same sex marriage? Its still not the same as Incest or marrying a pet.


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Right. The argument against same sex marriage and Transgenderism has long been that legitimizing them will lead to incest or marrying animals. It is a ridiculous argument. The fact that some will try this stupid crap isn’t related. You always had a small percentage of the population that will try and you always will. The vast majority of the population frowns upon these and always will. The far right fear machine is trying to convince you that you support transgenderism, you support incest. They are not related. Just like for the longest time they tried to convince you that if you supported homosexuality, you supported pedophilia. All of these issues are separate. You have to look at each individually. You can disagree will all of them, thats your right. Just understand that when you conflate them, you are insulting people that never committed incest, pedophilia or pet marriage, which are choices, just because they don’t conform to gender identity or sexual orientation which aren’t necessarily a choice. You like to bring up the complicated issue of transgenders in sports. I agree that it can lead to unfair advantages but i think you overestimate mens willingness to chop off their penises for a medal.


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We were talking about courts rulings changing what is “Normal”. I was referring to same sex union legalization and the common argument against it. I didn’t mean to put words in your mouth. Transgenders in sports is a separate issue but opponents use some of the same types of arguments. Equating it with deviance and clustering it with separate issues. Instead of focusing on what they perceive as an actual problem, they try to equate it to an issue everyone agrees on as if they were the same.

If someone is transgender, they are transgender. Whether the law recognizes it or not. You seem to still think that it a choice that can be flip flopped on a whim when in fact most of them had to make very difficult decisions before getting to the point where they can begin a transition. My point was that “Men” are a little more hesitant to chop willy off. “Women” who were born male but would like to transition still aren’t taking the decision lightly. Neither are the therapists and doctors required to sign off on it. Politicians who are neither, want to tell them and the transgender person that it is not real because they personally don’t want to be transgender. Completely oblivious the fact that nobody was asking them to be. For many, they view that the same way you would if someone said “I’ve decided you are not a woman”. You would look at them and say “ Who the hell are you to tell me what I AM?” You may not agree with it but most transgender are just as clear as to what their gender is as you are. It just isn’t what what they were born as.


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This is not going to turn out well for humans

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...early-embryos-that-are-part-human-part-monkey


The truth is out there

 

Getting back to the original post about the couple’s lawsuit in NYS to allow a father and daughter to marry, I learned something I hadn’t realized.

From Wiki: (Bold print mine)
In all but two states (and the special case of Ohio, which "targets only parental figures"),[1] incest is criminalized between consenting adults. In New Jersey and Rhode Island, incest between consenting adults (16 or over for Rhode Island, 18 or over for New Jersey) is not a criminal offense, though marriage is not allowed in either state. New Jersey also increases the severity of underage sex offenses by a degree if they are also incestuous, and criminalizes incest with 16-17 year olds (the normal age of consent in New Jersey is 16). Ohio allows incest between consenting adults only when one party is not a parental figure (see table below) to the other.

As of 2010, cases of incest involving consenting adults are often not revealed to outside parties, and therefore prosecutions of these cases do not frequently occur. Cases of parent-adult child incest exposed to law enforcement are usually uncovered by another parent.[2]


If you look it up, every state has prohibitions but it varies as to what exact acts are forbidden. NYS has more taboos than many others. It occurred to me that if this father/daughter duo is seriously trying to change the law regarding incestuous marriages maybe they should petition the courts in NJ or RI where they have a head start.

I was also reading that attitudes regarding incest within the family has been fluid throughout history. The most conspicuous being various ruling dynasties where brother and sister often married.

As to the US, From:

https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/incests-history/
...the 1970s, when most of the incest laws in the United States were rewritten as a result of feminist activism, bringing incest, which had long been treated, in law, as a consensual act, under the penumbra of sexual assault statutes. The 1970s legal transformation, emphasizing incest as sexual violence, worked, inadvertently perhaps, to normalize, in fits and starts, consensual adult incest.


That New Jersey’s law differs from most other states regarding adult consensual incest should not, in and of itself, come as a surprise to anyone familiar with US family law, which is, for the most part, state based. In the 19th century, when, state-by-state, the biblical basis of the law was given up, the variation could be extreme. New York, for instance, had no law prohibiting incest until 1830. Colorado, instituting a law prohibiting incest upon becoming a state in 1876, actually had two separate incest prohibitions, one for residents of Colorado and the other for anyone living in the area of Colorado that had been part of Mexico prior to the Mexican-American War, who were to marry “according to the custom” of Mexico. (This bifurcation remains in part, the exception now for “Established customs of aboriginal cultures.”) The 1877 Ohio criminal code called seminal emission “an essential ingredient in the crime of incest,” thus making incestuous sex a crime only if the man reached orgasm. All of which is to say, if incest was prohibited in every state, what actually constituted incest was a rather ambiguous matter. In a world in which the family and the individual were increasingly figured as incestuous, anything like a unified incest prohibition was becoming more and more difficult to articulate.


Incest law in the 19th century, for the most part, treated incest as a consensual act — if convicted, both parties were guilty. While some states, like Ohio, had so-called “rape of daughter” statutes, these were anomalous, and were part of rape law, not incest law. While there were some changes in the law in the 20th century, the language of morality and biblical phrases like “carnal knowledge” continued to suffuse statutes. However, feminist activism in the 1970s led to a wholesale transformation of incest law as part of the reform of rape statutes.


Well, it seems things are not so cut and dry in today’s world. Societies mores will change with the times, back and forth reflecting how people live their lives. I doubt that the main feelings people have, as a whole, about incest, have changed to the point that the laws at this time will be rewritten to accommodate what I hope is a sliver of adherents.

 

I saw a movie years ago, I can’t remember the name, about a man who was the result of a human/ape genetic experiment. It didn’t turn out well, for the guy in the movie either...

 

Any permanent change to your body, especially something that requires major surgery, usually isn’t taken lightly. Even if you could afford it. Gender reassignments aren’t cheap. What you are isn’t always what you look like. Menstruation and insemination don’t always define gender. Many women don’t menstruate and some never have and many men cant impregnate a woman and some never could. Gender doesn’t always have to be tied to reproduction. Many Hetros don’t want to procreate. That doesn’t change their gender.


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I know a family here that couldn’t except that their teenage daughter was gay. The doctor told them that her body was producing large amounts of testosterone, and started giving her estrogen. It didn’t stop her from liking girls though so the parents finally excepted her decision.
She is going through reassignment now, and as you said, it’s expensive. She and her girlfriend were married shortly after it became legal here, and believe it or not, their church excepts them as husband and wife.


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Glad he can finally be happy with his families approval. I have a family member who wants to transition to male. Most of us understand but some in his immediate family aren’t happy about it. I told him he cant pin all of his hopes on transition making his happiness as he might not be able to afford it. He has to be happy with himself no matter what form that takes. He was aware of what he wanted to be from a young age. He just didn’t know the words to make us understand. Looking back, I remember hearing him say things but it didn’t click at the time. All we can do is support him now.


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