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Coronavirus

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by surviving, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Dr. Fauci lied to Congress?:eek:

    "
    Senator Rand Paul, R-Ky., claimed that Dr, Fauci lied to Congress when he denied that the National Institute of Health was funding research at the controversial Wuhan lab.

    RAND PAUL: I would say what Dr. Fauci said yesterday was verifiably false. He said no NIH money went to Wuhan institute for gain-of-function. Well, the main doctor there—the one that they call the ‘bat scientist’ or the ‘bat woman’ is a woman named Dr. Shi Zhengli. She wrote a paper that MIT scientists have looked at that she said was gain-of function—meaning juicing up these viruses to make them very potent and infect humans. She wrote this paper and in the paper acknowledged their funding came from Dr. Fauci’s group, the NIAID, which is part of NIH...

    So, he’s verifiably telling you something that is not true. Now he may be quibbling and saying that they weren’t doing gain-of-function or they weren’t supposed to but we have looked at the grant application. In the grant application, we have a cellular biologist from Rutgers who says the grant application is for gain-of-function...

    So, Dr. Fauci came to Congress yesterday and lied. We can’t prove the virus came from the lab. I’m not saying it did. I’m saying there is very much suspicious evidence that it might have."

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/rand-paul-dr-fauci-lied-congress-china-virus-research
     
  2. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK285579/

    “The field of virology, and to some extent the broader field of microbiology, widely relies on studies that involve gain or loss of function. In order to understand the role of such studies in virology, Dr. Kanta Subbarao from the Laboratory of Infectious Disease at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) gave an overview of the current scientific and technical approaches to the research on pandemic strains of influenza and Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) and Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) coronaviruses (CoV). As discussed in greater detail later in this chapter, many participants argued that the word choice of “gain-of-function” to describe the limited type of experiments covered by the U.S. deliberative process, particularly when coupled with a pause on even a smaller number of research projects, had generated concern that the policy would affect much broader areas of virology research.

    TYPES OF GAIN-OF-FUNCTION (GOF) RESEARCH

    Subbarao explained that routine virological methods involve experiments that aim to produce a gain of a desired function, such as higher yields for vaccine strains, but often also lead to loss of function, such as loss of the ability for a virus to replicate well, as a consequence. In other words, any selection process involving an alteration of genotypes and their resulting phenotypes is considered a type of Gain-of-Function (GoF) research, even if the U.S. policy is intended to apply to only a small subset of such work.

    Subbarao emphasized that such experiments in virology are fundamental to understanding the biology, ecology, and pathogenesis of viruses and added that much basic knowledge is still lacking for SARS-CoV and MERS-CoV. Subbarao introduced the key questions that virologists ask at all stages of research on the emergence or re-emergence of a virus and specifically adapted these general questions to the three viruses of interest in the symposium (see Box 3-1). To answer these questions, virologists use gain- and loss-of-function experiments to understand the genetic makeup of viruses and the specifics of virus-host interaction. For instance, researchers now have advanced molecular technologies, such as reverse genetics, which allow them to produce de novo recombinant viruses from cloned cDNA, and deep sequencing that are critical for studying how viruses escape the host immune system and antiviral controls. Researchers also use targeted host or viral genome modification using small interfering RNA or the bacterial CRISPR-associated protein-9 nuclease as an editing tool.”



    The phrase gain of function has been thrown around with evil connotation. It is essential and integral in developing vaccines. Gof isn’t to make them “more potent”. It is to encourage positive functions including higher yields of vaccines AND loss of function including making them LESS potent. As I keep pointing out, this is what labs do. It has nothing to do with whether Covid19 escaped from a lab. Now if Fauci lied that he was aware that Gof was happening, that would be odd considering it is integral to vaccine research. But if they asked if Nih was funding Gof to make them MORE potent and he said no, then that wouldn’t be a lie as the Gof wasn’t to increase deadliness but in mcrease vaccine yields. Subbarao discusses the stigma of the phrase Gain of function mistakenly including gain of negative functions when the intent is gain of positive functions. I’d be interested in seeing how the questions were actually phrased and answered as Rand has a history of telling us what Fauci is saying only for Fauci to shake his head and correct him. Then Rand continues to repeat what he just got fact checked on.


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  3. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    You can’t expect one of the biggest asshats in Congress to have the ability to understand the above explanation or any aspect of the scientific methods used in virology. Here’s the exchange. you can judge for yourself.

     
  4. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    What was Fauci's answer? "Dr. Varick (sp) is NOT doing gain of function research, and if he is doing gain of function research he's doing it in N. Carolina." Yeah... that's not a denial that makes me feel secure...:rolleyes:

    Next Paul says, "do you support sending money to the Wuhan Institute" and Fauci answers,
    "we don't send money to the Wuhan Institute", and Paul says, "we don't NOW, but we did" and Fauci answers, "let me explain to you why that was done.

    I've lost years' worth of trust in Fauci in the span of a minute or two. He clearly has become more "Washington" than doctor at this point.

    Oh, and I liked Paul's saying publicly that you can't tell the difference between a natural virus and one enhanced by serial passage through cell cultures. Good point.

    And Fauci's denial that we paid for gain of function research rings hollow if he isn't willing to call anything gain of function in the first place.

    Asshat or not, that was a useful exchange.
     
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  5. Jama

    Jama Well-Known Member

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    As of late, Fauci has sort of become a symbol for what's wrong with modern-day government bureaucracy and why we don't trust it.
     
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  6. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Not really. As Dr. Subbarao states there are different “types” of
    “Gain of function” research. Paul, is trying to focus in on making a virus more virulent with the express purpose of some sort of biological warfare, at least that’s what it sounds like he’s alluding to. Fauci said that was not the case. Maybe he should bring a power point lecture to explain , to quote from Zed’s post,

    “virologists use gain- and loss-of-function experiments to understand the genetic makeup of viruses and the specifics of virus-host interaction.For instance, researchers now have advanced molecular technologies, such as reverse genetics, which allow them to produce de novo recombinant viruses from cloned cDNA, and deep sequencing that are critical for studying how viruses escape the host immune system and antiviral controls. Researchers also use targeted host or viral genome modification using small interfering RNA or the bacterial CRISPR-associated protein-9 nuclease as an editing tool.”

    Cause Paul hasn’t got the background to understand the science but is trying to corner Fauci into saying something that is obviously nuanced. Instead of talking at Dr. Fauci maybe Paul should go off his script and try to ask the kind of questions that would get more clarified answers. Too bad Paul doesn’t really want to know anything that he doesn’t already believe.
     
  7. Jama

    Jama Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Coronavirus/COVID-19.... I received my 2nd Pfizer injection about 5 days ago. No problems or side effects with either shot, so I'm pretty excited about that.
     
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  8. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    The first two minutes is setting up a loaded question then he cuts him off 4 seconds into answering to spend another minute setting up another loaded question. Then cut him off and answered for him. Is Rand gunning for Tuckers time slot?


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  9. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    He answered that Varick?(Barick?) was not “juicing” Corona viruses. “Gain of function” is not specific to making them more deadly. Gof is a part of how they make vaccines. He said that if Varick is using Gof, it is within the guidelines of.... I dont know. Paul cut him off. Then he tried to explain that it would have been irresponsible to not fund vaccine research in China where viruses were emerging. Paul, again, cut him off and insinuated that this was some work around to give China money to make deadly viruses without giving money directly to the Chinese government. This was another example of him trying to put words in Fauci’s mouth. However Fauci is terrible at conveying information. He does not answer directly or succinctly. He clearly doesn’t like Paul and his answers suffer. Paul is playing Fauci like a fiddle but that doesn’t make what he is saying accurate. Just better presented.


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  10. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    He does get a bit theatrical but hey the guy that hired him liked theatrics. He strikes me as better behind closed doors guy. He doesn’t do Q&A very well.


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  11. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Exactly


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  12. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Keep up on fluids and don’t skip meals. My sister had side effects a couple weeks after. I had aches like a week or so after. But my diet is terrible and i drink more soda than water.


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  13. Biffster

    Biffster Well-Known Member

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    Good job! Or good jab. Take your pick.
     
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  14. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    The larger point though is that in every case they ARE making viruses with capabilities they've never had before, in ways that may or may not be possible through natural evolution. If one of those viruses was to escape the lab, it could cause a great deal of problems out "in the wild". One apparently has.

    It would be horribly naive to think these researchers understand completely the ramifications of what they're doing when they are really shooting an arrow in the dark and seeing what happens. This research IS dangerous by definition. Having a lab performing it that has a history of safety violations is just poor policy. Using our money to sponsor a that type of lab? Even worse policy.
     
  15. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    See, that's the part that's b.s. They could just as easily put all the novel viruses they found in a carry-on piece of luggage and brought them back to the U.S. to be studied safely. Why didn't they do that? The real reason researches do things in China or on some remote island is that it lets them do things that would be *against the law* in the U.S.
     
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  16. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Which president are you referring to that liked theatrics? Reagan? Clinton? Bush? Biden? Fauci worked for all of them.
     
    #3576 Morgotha, May 13, 2021
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
  17. JEA13

    JEA13 Well-Known Member

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    I get my second Pfizer tomorrow. They emailed and also called to remind me; I guess they don't want me to forget. I had a weird dream in which I got there but forgot my CDC card and tried to use mind control to teleport it to the site. It didn't work in the dream so I don't think it will work in reality ; I better remember to bring it. My arm was sore for a couple days after first dose.
     
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  18. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Well Reagan and Clinton were theatrical too. But I meant trump made him the Covid spokesperson.


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  19. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Teleportation doesn’t work. Ive tried. But maybe you have willed yourself back in time to the night before to give yourself a second chance to bring your card. Ya, thats it.


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  20. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I know, I was just pulling your leg a bit. I am surprised you don't hate Fauci with a passion, him being a Trump appointee and all.
     

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