Well damn. And wow. I guess I just have to eat my hat.

 

Whoa! Well that answers the question now doesn’t it....

 

Good clip. I didn't like the one they showed on Talking Dead that suggests Carol might go back on her word to Negan. That's just wrong. I noticed how they showed in this one that she said, "if you do it quick." So she might play off of that and renege, since it took him time. That will make me dislike her even more. Of course Negan has done horrendous things, but leave it up to the people of Alexandria to decide if they'll accept him. He kept his end of the bargain, and she has already put everyone's lives in jeopardy due to her recklessness. Really sick of her behavior.

 

Well, this is just my opinion. Stacking Carol's deeds up next to Negan's makes Carol look like sister saint any day of the week. No contest. I, for one will never forget Glenn and Abe. Never.
Second of all, since Kirkman makes so much use of the bible and it's phraseology let me quote Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to doing evil.

I would no more trust Negen to live in my cloistered community than I would Ted Bundy or Gacy. Nope, ain`t ever gonna happen with me.

Thirdly, do I think that the writers could and would write in such a change of charactor for Negen? I'd bet on it. . . lol . . they seem to change the charactor of the characters as frequently as they kill off people on this show. Makes a body's head swim just keeping up.

 

I don't think they've drastically changed Negan's character, neither that any change we have seen is just willy-nilly. There's been a very gradual change, and there's a lot about him that hasn't changed at all.

I will never forget what he did either. Not just to Abe and Glenn, but Rosita, Daryl, Rick, Carl, Aaron, Dwight, the Doctor, his "wives", etc, there's a massive list of horrendous deeds on his list. I would also agree that a leopard with so many and such dark spots indeed is very unlikely to be able to change them. So the question is, do they still give him a chance to try to at least soften his spots, after he has now proven some loyalty to the group on a number of occasions, and in case of Alpha, he has even put his own life on the line for them. It's a very complicated situation and beyond fascinating. I think they're doing an excellent job with it, both the writers and JDM.

 

Well mam, he did give Alpha a kiss after he slit her throat. Dwight just got a hot iron to the face and narry a kiss. There 's that . . . lol

Glad you are up and feeling better!

 

Thank you for stating that, because it seems so many fans, along with Kirkman and Gimple, have forgotten that Negan has those dark spots.

Negan was a cruel but affable warlord in 7A, he took supplies from communities; he intimidated those communities to keep them inline, he had a harem of wives. Negan's only redeeming qualities were a fondness for children (Carl and Judith), and a disgust for rapists (the savior who attacked Sasha).

In 7B, Negan's personality changed to a warrior king defending his realm against the usurper Rick Grimes. Negan was suddenly reasonable and forgiving of many transgressions, particularly Rosita putting a bullet into his baseball bat Lucille. Negan's harem turned out to be women looking for an easy lifestyle and hardly victims of abuse.

Ratings in seasons 7 and 8 declined drastically and have never recovered. Many critics and fans site the heavy reliance on Negan as the reason why.

I liked Negan's personality in 7B. I think if Gimple had wrote Negan that way throughout seasons 7 and 8, Negan's journey of redemption would be more possible and deserving.

 

I would agree that Negan was a huge reason. It was just relentless, excruciating and horrendously stretched out how he terrorised and bullied our beloved characters. I remember sitting down to watch TWD that felt more like punishment and torture than entertainment. I always had a horrible feeling in my tummy the moment he appeared, it was almost unbearable. I just wanted this part of the story over so much.
I completely understand everyone who during these dark days just threw their hands up and said “f*** this, I’m done”. I was pretty close.

I also take this “Negan likes kids” with a pinch of salt. He threatened to cut off Carl’s hand. After he made him watch two adults in his group brutally murdered. He psychologically abused Carl’s father in front of him on many occasions. Then he abused Carl himself again when he made him sing and all that shit. Not to mention threatening to kill him, when he might (or might not) have been bluffing.

And Lydia? We just saw him kidnapping and tying her up, even though he is clearly fond of her. Liking children doesn’t mean that he will not hurt them when he thinks it’s necessary, for whatever reason. Negan was always unpredictable and he still is, therefore he can never be fully trusted, even if he’s decided there’s nothing else left for him than to try to fit in more with our group that still holds up values of the old world.

 

You’ve articulated what I’ve thought all along however here’s where it gets sticky. He entered into a contract with Carol and held up his end. By doing so he rendered a valuable service to our communities so it seems that he’s owed something for his services. While I think he can never be fully trusted, how much slack should they give him? It’s going to require the wisdom of Solomon to make the right call.

 

Very tricky. Especially as he took his sweet time, like Carol pointed out. He allowed Alpha to attack and destroy Hilltop. He personally fought against our people. To his suggestion they killed and hanged two people from Hilltop and blocked the road that Daryl immediately identified as his trademark. So yes, he brought Alpha’s head but in some ways he’s too late. Really tricky.

 

Not to mention tying up Lydia and putting her in danger. Daryl won’t like that either.

 

True but he could explain that all away as being he was undercover and had to make it believable so he could get close to Alpha. Personally, it would be of little comfort to me if I was connected in any way to anyone who lost their life but I’d have to acknowledge it probably saved others in the long run.

Perhaps the council and the rest of the community will be able to make a more informed decision after they see what he does during the Battle with Beta which is eminent.

 

That pretty much sums up how I feel. It's the whole thing about the deal she made. I'm not discarding all that Negan did, but he kept his end of the bargain. This doesn't punch his ticket as a member of their society, but she should at least tell them what happened and let them decide if they want to let Negan back in, or banish him.

Now, if this had been Maggie who made the deal and then reneged on it, I would've been fine with it. It just bothers me that Carol hasn't been a team player, put people at risk herself, then lets out their previous nemesis (to kill the new one) and now just wants to wash her hands of all of it.

 

LOL and I just started a thread wondering why Carol didn't do anything with the alpha head before seeing this.

 

He didn't put Lydia in danger. Yes, tied her up so she wouldn't stumble across Alpha and Beta but he didn't put her in the same cabin he took Alpha to.

 

Yeah, I know. But just imagine any other Whisperer would have found her, not to mention Beta. Anyone. She was defenceless.