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1115 - Trust - Rate and Discuss

Discussion in 'Episode 1115 - Trust' started by BlackBird, Apr 1, 2022.

  1. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    With the guns she stole there were different colors of dye. They mix them to make Orange Storm Trooper's suits orange.
     
  2. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    Those episodes were at least palatable, despite the dark underground scenes. Once you get to the second 1/3 of episodes you don't have dark ones, but it's the writers who go into the dark. The current 1/3 are so bad that it makes the ones you were watching look like a masterpiece.
     
  3. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    That’s such a pity you feel that way, as I know you enjoyed the first 8. There were a couple of episodes in this third that I felt annoying at the time but actually, looking back at the second instalment in full, I get those episodes now, and I’m beginning to see how this will all come together in the final 8. Our Group is beginning to reassemble and it’s very interesting for me to see them deal with the issues of the Commonwealth, even if the Commonwealth itself is extremely irritating.
     
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  4. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    The final straw for me was what they did with Negan. I was still enjoying his character and Maggie too. The Dexter reboot was actually a bigger disappointment for me. The series ended in disaster. Then the original showrunner who left before the end, said he'd come back to fix it. So they lured in fans again. The series premiered in late 2021 and ended this January. It started out excellent. Then they kicked us all in the teeth with a new ending even worse than the first one, and this one can't be fixed anymore.

    I've binged a couple of series this winter that ended well. It's not that everything happened that I would've liked, but it was appropriate for those stories. And this makes me even more ambivalent for the series that just fail so miserably.
     
  5. lastcat3

    lastcat3 Well-Known Member

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    It really is getting to the point that if AMC isn't willing to invest money into their shows they might as well get out of the television show business and just go back to their roots and show old movies.

    These days a lot of the shows that are considered good invest a lot of dough into their programs and have creative teams that don't come cheap. Really the only person that is involved with Walking Dead that is a recognizable name outside of TWD these days is JDM.

    Likely a big reason the show has had so many key actors leave over the past few years is because AMC wasn't wanting to pay them what they felt they were worth. And the same thing can probably be said for the writers that work on the show.
     
    #25 lastcat3, Apr 7, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2022
  6. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    I’m sorry about your disappointment over Dexter, that sounds bad. I’ve never watched it so can’t comment. But I could imagine if someone tried to fix GoT final episodes and ended up messing it up even more… though it’s hard to imagine. I’m still in disbelief about that ridiculous ending. Grrrr.

    Anyhow. Back to TWD. It’s a tricky situation here because whilst the source material has actually been completed before the show, the tv adaptation has messed around with it from the start. On the whole they followed the main progress of Team Family reaching the Commonwealth. So they had to work with that parameter. They also ridiculously overstretched the series to 11 seasons, practically 12, and making it impossible for some key actors to stay with the show this long. Hence having to write said key characters out of the story. Then Covid happened, etc.

    On the whole, I still love this show. I’ve got a bunch of resentments, don’t get me wrong. But maybe, much as I love the show, I’m not that passionate about wanting my own favoured outcomes for the characters - because I know full well that I won’t get them, certainly not all of them. But I’m open and quite happy to see their ideas unfold. As long as they don’t piss me off with utter randomness such as Bran of all people taking the iron throne. :confused:

    I think they’re doing really well with all the main characters left on the show right now.
    Including Negan.

    So I’m wondering, what in Negan’s story/character development is bothering you and why?
     
    #26 BlackBird, Apr 7, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2022
  7. ChrisAnn

    ChrisAnn Member

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    I've been trying to come up with a good answer, thus my delay in replying. All l can say is, that's it TWD, and I just have this gut feeling.
     
  8. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    I see. My only gut feeling with this pairing (and all the other current pairings) is that “some of you won’t survive this season”…
    I think Mercer might not make it. I can see that he might have a self-sacrifice arc going, especially with his guilt over having to kill to of his soldiers.
     
    #28 BlackBird, Apr 8, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2022
  9. Blueman

    Blueman Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure if that guilt will be used to introduce his self sacrifice (if there will be one). I think it is just meant to add weight to push him to become part of the 'resistance'.
    After all, those 2 soldiers said something like ''we do not answer to you'' when Mercer told them they could have helped to clear out the walkers. Saying something like that in that situation with such a 'mocking' tone is almost equivalent to mutiny, which Mercer clearly could not tolerate and brought justice instantly.
     
  10. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    I think I haven’t explained properly why I think there might be a sacrifice arc coming stemming from the murders. Hm. It’s more like a gut feeling for me too, but I’ll try to explain it.

    I think Mercer’s situation is almost as complicated and difficult as our people’s.

    He’s been trying to be a good person, earn his keep, help to support the community that had given him and his sister security and a respected place in society. He wants to be loyal and appreciative. So much that he’s been bending backwards to put up with what he considered minor problems and tried not to see/get involved with the bigger ones. But his conscience has been stirring and the voice has been getting louder. Add into the mix his sister’s unhappiness, the new arrivals, his attraction to Princess, his admiration and respect for Daryl, seeing things afresh through their eyes. Also Sebastian spiralling out of control and Lance getting cockier and more transparent. The removal of Tyler from custody without his consent. Then the incident with Sebastian (and Lance from the background) and their paid off soldiers forcing Daryl and Rosita to get the money from the safe. That was a win-win situation for them: either they get the money, or they would get rid of Daryl who was already a huge thorn in Sebastian’s side. It was certainly decided (as it turned out from Lance’s words to Carol) that this mission was routinely given to troublemakers to remove them from the CW.

    Mercer, in the heat of the moment of understanding the depth of corruption, decided to execute the soldiers, knowing full well they couldn’t have been brought to justice by the very people who employed them. So yes, unwittingly he’s stepped into the field of resistance for sure, but it doesn’t mean that it sits easy with him. He’s terribly cut up about what circumstances have made him do. He’s going to keep on doing whatever thinks is best for the community / not the governing body. I sense something very tragic and heroic about his character, as he internalises everything, and I think these qualities are setting him up to be a tragic hero.
     
    #30 BlackBird, Apr 8, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2022
  11. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    I liked where Negan was at telling Maggie he should've killed them all. And then we had her take the same approach with the Reapers. It was intriguing just in terms of people needing a hard edge in that world. Now he's changed off camera and saying he was a bad man etc. The character doesn't feel real to me anymore. It was like when they had Morgan switch back in forth between "kill them all" and "all life is precious." It's contrived.

    Both TWD and Game of Thrones suffered because they moved their characters around to serve plot points rather than follow what that person would actually do. In GoT they wanted Dany to burn down King's Landing, so they just did it. But it made no sense because she always sacrificed her own ambition for the people, and she did it in Essos time and time again. Jaime's whole character was based on being the "King Slayer." He killed Aerys to stop him from burning everyone with wildfire. Then in the final season they had Jaime utter the words, "I never cared about the people."

    They've done similar stuff with Daryl this season. He never allowed Negan to break him when he was captive there, now he's trailing along and taking orders. Yeah, the guy who lived in the woods on his own for a few years would do this. And yes, he's still on the side of his old friends, but he would never do what he's been doing.
     
  12. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    Regarding Morgan: can’t comment on his development in Fear, but in TWD I thought his inner struggle on this was done very well.
    Basically clinging onto his “all life is precious” mantra as a means to hold onto his sanity. He was so screwed and broken inside that this was the framework that he believed could keep him together. Of course he had to save Carol, because some lives are just more precious than others. To this day one of my all time favourite episodes is the one in season 6 when Morgan lived with the cheesemaker. I thought one day I should probably find out what happened to Morgan in Fear?

    Regarding Negan: oh I don’t think he thinks he is a “bad man”. That was Hershel’s words and he conceded, talking in simple terms to a child. I think he regrets his act of depriving this child, Maggie’s child, of his father, especially now as he’s about to become one. But at the same time, he also believes that he made a strategic mistake of not killing Rick’s entire group at the time. I think there’s also a new priority in his life that makes him appear softer, and that’s because caring for someone so deeply makes you vulnerable. I wish we saw more of the development of his relationship with Annie, but hey, that’s TWD. We might get it later in Tales. But right now the main story will be how losing Annie will affect him, I’m pretty sure of it. And being thrown back in the deep end, which side of him will win over in the end. I think that will be very interesting to watch.

    100% in agreement on all of the above. Still makes me mad. The senseless destruction of so many beautifully crafted characters. Dani, Jaime and Tyrion were the greatest victims but Jon Snow got a real bad deal too.

    I don’t think this is out of character for Daryl at all. He’s doing the same now at the Commonwealth as he did whilst he was with the Reapers. He’s observing, gathering information, looking out for his family and Rick’s kids. He decided to come to the Commonwealth whilst Alexandria is being rebuilt to give those two kids a break, after what they’d been through. In this society you need to take a job assigned to you to earn a living, so he took the job of soldier/guard/police. It’s an excellent job for him as it provides a vantage point of how the CW works. He cooperates to keep up appearances (sprinkled with a few little very Daryl-like rebellious moments), but he’s mostly gathering information. He knew from the start that everything was not what it seemed. In the last few episodes he has been even more tightly bound to seemingly cooperate: first the children were threatened, then the last two episodes he, Aaron and Gabriel have had Lance’s soldiers right behind them with guns in their hands to watch their every step. Lance knowing full well they were lying, he just couldn’t quite prove it. So Daryl has been Daryl for me, and will be completely and utterly DARYL in the mid season finale too, for sure.

    There have been a few times I felt they made a mistake with Daryl character-wise: one was the length of time he ended up living in the woods. 6 months? Ok. But 6 years? Totally didn’t get that. And the whole Leah thing thrown into it. Just no. And then there was a gesture that really bugged me, as it was more Norman and Jeffrey than Daryl and Negan and should have definitely been cut: Daryl patting Negan on the tummy, after the Beta kill I think, or some other time during the Whisperer war. As if Daryl would do that? One thing to cooperate with Negan and accept him as a stranger-things-have-happened ally, but Daryl wouldn’t ever be matey with him, not like that, ever. That gesture was something he’d do with Rick, Glenn, Aaron… but not Negan.

    So I’m trying to say, I do have some issues with things they have made Daryl do, not to mention the years when they hardly wrote proper words for him to say. But I think right now the character is doing ok, more than ok, and I enjoy his arc this season.
     
    #32 BlackBird, Apr 8, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2022
  13. Jen7

    Jen7 Well-Known Member

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    @BlackBird love your posts - you always have some great, well thought out perspectives. I normally come away from your posts with new insight about the show that i hadn't realized during my first viewing.

    Like you, I have my likes and dislikes about this season. Which is the case for most shows I've watched into their 10th or 11th season! I absolutely love seeing the contrast between the lifestyle at the Commonwealth, and the lifestyle of those living out in the world and "roughing it" still. It's fascinating to see. It makes me want to go back and re-watch from the beginning again, knowing what we know now. I love seeing our group stirring up trouble in the Commonwealth. I just knew it wouldn't be so simple as them moving in and living a cushy life.

    I'm enjoying this season, despite some of its flaws.
     
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  14. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @Jen7 for your kind words. And I’m really glad you’re still enjoying the show.
     

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