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2020 current racial troubles

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Jun 16, 2020.

  1. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    It seems there was also a "White Lives Matter" march in Huntington Beach, CA. There were fights between some of them and a larger group of "Black Lives Matter" counterprotestors which caused the police to shut down the rally. Surprisingly, when the police asked them to disperse people apparently went home.

    "Police in Huntington Beach, California shut down an organized so-called "White Lives Matter" rally within 90 minutes on Sunday afternoon after a few attendees violently clashed with counter-protesters."

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/c...-violent-in-90-minutes/ar-BB1fxOwc?li=BBnb7Kz
     
  2. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    For a "professional" writer to post something with both grammar AND spelling errors as an introduction? Freshessay must give pretty poor advice. Is it run by someone who speaks English as a second language or something?
     
    #442 Morgotha, Apr 14, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  3. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Some background on the recent man shot by police. Apparently he has a prior history of aggravated robbery and choking a woman he was holding a gun on during said robbery. His bail was revoked as he broke the terms of his bail by buying and carrying another gun, hence the warrant for his arrest. Now he tried to resist arrest, another crime. Not exactly an innocent victim of police brutality, then.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/daunte-w...tempted-aggravated-robbery-when-he-was-killed
     
  4. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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  5. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    However, the policewoman who shot him not only resigned but is being charged with manslaughter. I have no problem with this. What burns my biscuits is that after all the questionable shootings committed by white male officers that have come to light recently, it’s the woman who is automatically charged. Figures.

    https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2021/...-charged-manslaughter-brooklyn-center-vpx.cnn
     
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  6. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Yep, that's how it goes. As I understand it what she's being charged with doesn't imply any kind of intent, just that another person died as a result of her actions, and that's fair enough.

    Part of me hopes she'll be found innocent based on the situation, and part of me thinks she should be found guilty based on what I understand is the law. We'll have to see what happens at trial.

    One thing's for sure: there's one less armed criminal in Minneapolis either way.
     
  7. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    The left has removed the (black) city manager for stating that former officer Potter receive due process protections like anyone else. So much for respecting the Constitution!

    "
    The right to due process – protected under the U.S. Constitution – has transformed into a point of contention in the Minnesota city of Brooklyn Center after former police officer Kim Potter fatally shot 20-year-old Daunte Wright during a traffic stop, evoking several consecutive nights of civil unrest that has spilled into Minneapolis.

    Brooklyn Center City Manager Curt Boganey was fired for arguing at a press conference that the officer should receive due process, and the police chief, Tim Gannon, offered his resignation after publicly suggesting the same.

    "All employees working for the city of Brooklyn Center are entitled to due process with respect to discipline," Boagney said at the press conference which included journalists and activists, "This employee will receive due process and that’s really all that I can say today."

    Boagney had worked for the city of Brooklyn Center since 2003 -- including 15 years as city manager.

    "We are standing in solidarity and calling for the firing of this officer," one activist told the city manager. "You have talked about her having due process – although Daunte Wright did not get due process. She needs to be fired immediately to send a message that this type of behavior will not be condoned within the city of Brooklyn Center."

    "Thank you, I appreciate those comments," Boganey, who is Black, responded.

    In a matter of hours, Brooklyn Center City Council held an emergency meeting and voted 4-1 to relieve the city manager of his duties, which had included responsibility and command over the police department. Mayor Mike Elliott’s office then assumed command authority over the police department and Dr. Reggie Edwards was named the new acting city manager for the municipality which is located in Washington County."

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/daunte-wright-progressive-push-due-process-jeopardy
     
  8. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    A white high school girl in MN was falsely accused by a black student of sending them racist messages, which was later disproved by the FBI. For some reason, the FBI isn't going after the person responsible for ruining this girl's life. I wonder why that is? I think they have a responsibility expel the student, throw that person in jail... something. The Jussie Smollets of the world shouldn't get off scot free after causing damage to someone.

    "https://www.foxnews.com/media/minnesota-high-school-student-falsely-accused-racist-messages-hoax
     
  9. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    She can sue. Look at this case we have here in Webster, NY.
    Black coach accused by a white student of rape. He was brought to trial and was acquitted of all charges. His life is ruined however. Did they go after the student? Of course not, but he’s suing the school district for two million dollars now.

    https://13wham.com/news/local/court...seeking-2-million-from-webster-schools-police
     
  10. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Same thing. If that student was later found to have maliciously fabricated their claim, they SHOULD be punished, and severely. They ruined the man's life. Why aren't they being made to pay for it?

    Your article doesn't say much about the actual case, though, so I don't really know the situation.
     
  11. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    It was big news at the time. The news clip I posted was just a follow up. Student claimed he raped her in the locker room. He was able to provide credible alibis and the jury found him not guilty. Pretty standard stuff.
     
  12. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Then she should be punished. Enough with this "compassion for the criminal" malarkey. People who do good things should be rewarded, those who do bad things should be punished.
     
  13. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    This is what gets me, the human cost of these rioting idiots. When you compare Mr. Patel's actions in trying to save his customers' clothes even if he can't protect his shop with the rioters? These people might have come from different planets.

    "MINNEAPOLIS — Around midday last Monday, Samir Patel received a phone call from his friend, a dentist: Gunshots had rung out, his friend told him, and the contractors who were rebuilding the office he lost in last year’s unrest had fled. He was boarding up, and he told Mr. Patel he should move quickly to protect his own business, a dry cleaning shop.
    Aaron Nesheim for The New York Times In anticipation of a verdict in the Derek Chauvin trial, businesses began boarding up near the Hennepin County Government Center.
    And so Mr. Patel got in his car and drove to his shop, cleared out all of his customers’ clothes and brought them home. Maybe he couldn’t protect his building, he said, but at least he could save the clothing his customers had entrusted to him.

    “We don’t know what will happen,” said Mr. Patel, an immigrant from India who said he suffered half a million dollars in damage in last year’s civil unrest following the police killing of George Floyd. He had to deplete his savings and retirement accounts just to get his business open again. “We can’t predict now,” he said. “It’s beyond your imagination now.”"

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/m...er-george-floyds-death/ar-BB1fNyrK?li=BBnb7Kz
     
  14. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Certain conditions continue to exist in our society, which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met.” Martin Luther King Jr.

    As his daughter explained, he wasn’t endorsing riots but was giving an explanation as to why they occur. He felt violence took away from the narrative.



    Not everyone (all around) hears the non violence part...
     
  15. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    It's not going to get better the way things are going. There is universal suffering in life, and if you tell someone that their suffering is because of someone else? That's a recipe for unending victimization as there will ALWAYS be suffering.

    IMO, if you want to stop the rioting, start telling everyone are their problems are theirs, and caused by themselves. If one wants to moan about how tough their life is, that's fine, but they should be told it's up to *them* to make their life better, it's not society's responsibility to improve their lot in life.

    It might sound harsh, but in truth self-worth and self-respect are internal things. You can be dirt poor but valued by yourself and others, and you can be wealthy and feel worthless. The way to start feeling valued? Start taking responsibility for yourself.
     
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  16. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Unless society prevents you from acting on your self worth, I.e.
    Jim Crow laws, red lining, non acceptance by other groups, systemic “over policing” of minorities, etc.

    When people stand up for their rights by way of non violent protest over grievances they are saying that they have worth and they’re not putting up with the shit any longer.

    When all the barriers are removed that keep people repressed there should be no need for protests and those who choose to be violent are only taking away from the message. It’s a shame that there are extremists on both sides that do more harm than good.
     
  17. Jama

    Jama Well-Known Member

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    That's really the bottom line. Personal responsibility. People who take personal responsibility for themselves tend to prosper or improve their position in life, their place in society, etc. Those who make excuses, blame others or "the system" for their problems or their lack of having this or that, tend to struggle more and ultimately end up being unsatisfied with whatever situation they find themselves in.
     
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  18. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Quoting again...more to say...

    How ‘bout women who feel they aren’t allowed to get ahead in the work place or get paid as much as their male peers? Let’s focus on Tech.

    What should women looking to get ahead in these companies, among others do if they’ve hit a glass ceiling or face retaliation if they rub some male superior the wrong way?
    https://www.isemag.com/2020/10/telecom-the-latest-stats-on-women-in-tech/

    https://time.com/5947561/pinterest-gender-discrimination-racism/

    There’s suffering everywhere, and can they blame someone else for what’s happening to them? How far does this theory of yours go?

    In all fairness, I agree that there’s been no better time to reach out for opportunities not always available historically but sometimes external things, that have nothing to do with your internal self worth, get in the way. I don’t think there has ever been any marches to protest the inequality but then again I don’t know if any women have been murdered or sexually assaulted in the workplace. Now if we were talking about the military...:confused:...or the events leading to the Me Too movement. Hmmmm....

    So what’s the link from your comments to violence that occurs randomly at protest marches?
     
  19. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I agree, Jim Crow laws need to be stopped as barriers to advancement -- and they WERE, with the final nail being put in their coffin in 1964 with the passage of the Civil Rights Act. That was almost *60* years ago! Now we live in a society where we have had a black President, AG, and every time you hear about one of these big-city crimes it's amazing how many of them have black mayors and/or police chiefs. LOL, the Civil War happened a LONG time ago, not yesterday. The country moved on.

    So that whole canard of how the laws are keeping black people down is a lie. Why do you think red lining, "over policing", etc., exists for black neighborhoods, but not for say, Korean or Indian or Norwegian neighborhoods? Do you REALLY believe that all those black mayors and police chiefs are racist against their own people, or do you think it might have something to do with the fact that black young men commit literally the majority of violent crimes per capita in the country? Probably the latter, IMO. That being the case, trying to fix "white society" isn't going to fix the problem, as the problem lies with getting black people, particularly men, to *obey the law*, study, and try to be productive members of society.

    That's not racist, that's reality. If you are going to take your life's savings and start a small business, are you going to do so in a place where vandals don't destroy property, or a place where things get spray painted the day after they're built? Are you going to build where the rates of shoplifting are low or where they're high? If you aren't willing to risk your own life's savings in a place where the residents commit crimes, why would you expect anyone else to? Why would you expect insurance companies to want to insure places where they KNOW they are going to lose money? Nope, at the end of the day the solution to the problems affecting black people in this country has to come from the black community solving the destructive behavior within itself, not from some outside source.
     
  20. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    LOL, why not pick professional football as your example? Tech is pretty much the most male oriented field there is! Still, though, according to your article 25% of tech workers are women, so that's not *so* bad when you compare it to a really discriminatory field like nursing where only 12% of nurses are men. Wait...

    In your article it also says that a lot of girls just don't WANT to go in to tech. What are you going to do, *force* some to just to make the numbers better?

    On the Time article, I didn't read the whole thing, as I just don't like that style of writing. The gist as I understand it is that a respectable woman was fired because her boss was a jerk who didn't want to hear opinions other than his own. Meh, there are bad bosses out there, that's just life. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying women should overlook sexual harassment, etc., but if someone's just a jerk? That's life.

    BTW, you're talking to a woman who DID go in to a STEM major, whose oldest daughter did as well, and whose younger daughter thinks she'll be going into computer sciences in college so I realize I might not represent the "average" woman's POV, but what I CAN say is that if you're a woman and you WANT to get a STEM career - you can. Also... I can also say that I don't like unequal pay between the genders, but OTOH, can point to a lot of women who work part time, take years off to raise children and then come back, take time off just randomly during the week to attend their children's events, etc., and that that spotty (read "not willing to devote every breathing moment of their life to the institution") behavior would NOT be tolerated in their male colleagues, so... I think there's both a benefit and a curse to being a woman in the workforce. I don't think it's just a one-way street of some evil men trying to keep my sisters down.
     

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