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2020 election

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying it's impossible for him to have contracted the virus at the rally, OTOH, since there is no big obvious cluster of people near Cain that contracted the virus that we know about, and given that Cain attended a lot of events around that time, I'd say it's wrong to implicate the rally as the most likely source of his infection.

    And I wasn't suggesting reporters comb through people's medical records, but that they do something much simpler: identify the people in the photos near Cain and *call* them on the phone and ASK them if they contracted covid. The press can do that.
     
  2. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    Noel Casler, Former Trump beauty Pageant staffer
    Exactly. And unless people are buying into Trump's hoax idiocy we know that wearing masks cuts down on transmission along with avoiding large indoor gatherings. Cain was at an event where both of these variables were in play. Then as this piece points out there was a surge in Tulsa during the incubation period.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-covid-spike-health-official-says/5401944002/

    Some on the far right,were quick to point out that the protests over the summer could be causing a spike in the virus even though these events were outside and most of the participants were wearing masks.

    I was even concerned about that too though, because it's not good to be in any large group setting. It's why MLB has been playing this summer to stadiums only full of cardboard cutout fans. The NBA and NHL are in bubble environments for their playoffs. So, yes the protests could've contributed to spikes. But that's still much lower risk behavior than what we saw in Tulsa and recently Henderson, NV.

    We know large gatherings and not wearing masks will increase the spread of the virus. It's not nuclear science. It's common sense that this is high risk behavior. Pretending all is fine because Dear Leader is pushing his cult to ignore medicine, science and reality is the scariest aspect of this whole mess.
     
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  3. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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  4. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sad. A once great magazine has fallen by the wayside. There's still Science, though, and if THEY ever put politics before science it will be time to start looking for the 4 horsemen.
     
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  5. Jen7

    Jen7 Well-Known Member

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    In the case of a global pandemic, why would science be kept separate from political leadership? Our political leaders need to take into account the fact that the average citizens aren't keeping themselves caught up with the latest issues of Science and Scientific American magazines, and it's up to them to relay accurate messages during a dangerous global pandemic. They need to be working hand in hand with scientists and giving information, uniting us and emphasizing the importance of taking precautions so we can bring cases down together. NOT downplay it and dismiss the science of it.

    What's the point of science at all, if the loudest messages that are going out are completely contradicting it? There is still a large part of this country who, to this day, don't see the seriousness of this pandemic or think it's necessary to take precautions, shut certain businesses down, and wear masks after hearing Trump downplay it from day 1. There are still people who think that there is a conspiracy to keep hydroxychloroquine from covid patients. They are all Trump supporters so let's not pretend it's a coincidence. Luckily i think his supporter numbers have gone down, but in the case of a disease that spreads exponentially, those numbers are still significant enough to affect ALL of us.
     
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  6. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Your post is exactly the reason that science should stay divorced from politics. Political goals and science rarely line up completely, and if the political call is strident, science tends to lose out to politics.

    As an example, remember in the George Floyd protests when a *CDC epidemiologist* said that it was OK to have large protests because the social goals were more important than protecting against covid? That was one of the most outrageous things I've heard in this crisis to date, and should never have happened, and wouldn't have if some "scientist" didn't decide it was their place to get involved in the political arena.

    On the Trump and coronavirus situation, what might one say on the pro-Trump side?

    Before Trump took office, former President Obama depleted our stores of PPE and didn't replace them, so it's silly for Scientific American to place the blame at Trump's feet for not having PPE on hand. That is what he inherited. Blaming him for not replenishing the stores instead of blaming the person who depleted them from not replenishing them is what I mean about politics interfering with objectivity.

    Thinking back to Jan 2020, the media wasn't concerned with covid at all as a killer plague -they were concerned broadcasting about impeaching Trump 24/7 - even though reports were out there that something was happening in China and surrounding Asian countries with a novel infection.

    The WHO tweeted in mid January that there was no documented person to person transmission of covid. So at that point it wouldn't surprise me if Trump or any other person decided to downplay what were isolated warnings on the subject.

    At the end of January, the WHO changed its tune and declared covid a worldwide emergency. The next day Trump declared travel restrictions on China, and was immediately lambasted by democratic leadership for being a bigot for doing so. People who said we needed to defend against covid *were called racists* and discriminating against the Chinese for doing so.

    Near the end of February , a month AFTER Trump "should have done more", Nancy Pelosi was filmed in Chinatown in a big crowd without a mask in sight saying everything was safe and to come on down, and people were again saying it was racism against the Chinese to panic about the virus -- everything was safe.

    What's the point of the above? A solid month AFTER you're criticizing Trump for not being more restrictive than he was, the Speaker of the House was out saying everything was safe. IOW, it wasn't a situation where everyone knew in January there was this huge problem, and only Trump was trying to downplay everything. No one on either side of the political aisle really appreciated the seriousness of covid until it was too late.

    The main point being that Scientific American shouldn't be out there making a political statement about whose fault this is. Making science in general seem like another political tool isn't in anyone's best interests.

    As an aside, the guy that really disappointed me was Woodward. Here he has this interview with Trump where Trump tells him the virus is very dangerous and what does he do? Does he warn the public? No, he sits on it until September when his book comes out. So either Woodward is a sociopath, or he didn't think it was that big of a deal at the time either. In any case the hypocrisy of him saying Trump should have let the people know, but that he as a *reporter* had no obligation to was jaw-dropping.

    Oh, and on the mask thing, remember that early on the CDC said that masks were NOT helpful, and did NOT recommend them. It's no surprise to me then that some people didn't get with the program when the CDC said they changed their mind and what they said was fact yesterday wasn't a fact today and that masks were a good idea. We understand more about covid now than we did in January, but there is no excuse for going back and retroactively blaming Trump for not knowing more than the CDC at the time.
     
    #2046 Morgotha, Sep 16, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
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  7. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    And next we’ll read about how Hillary turns into a reptile and eats people. I suggest instead of taking the comments with a pinch of salt you’ll need the whole shaker.;) Lol
     
  8. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes, that would definitely work cause everyone discusses their medical status with complete strangers over the phone, especially if they identify themselves as being a reporter.
     
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  9. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    For my safety I'll need a whole salt shaker? Why? Salt doesn't work against reptiles or their ilk...

    OTOH... salt IS effective at controlling snails and slugs. Are you warning me that the reason Biden is so slow is that he's really a Gastropodian hiding in plain sight, and that I'll need a fair amount of salt to hold off his forcible advances on my family's hair?

    Normally, I say that was crazy, but if you're saying it's true, I'll believe you! And it makes sense, now that I think about it. Why else would Obama recommend the FDA lower the acceptable sodium levels in the American diet if not to protect his sluggish sidekick? Thanks for opening my eyes!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Cree - Py! Once you see it, you can't UN-see it.
     
    #2049 Morgotha, Sep 16, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
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  10. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    The only things that need “salting” are your weird narratives comparing people to reptiles and slugs. Hey, maybe you have a fixation with creepy crawlers. Who knows.
    Otherwise you seeeeem pretty normal...lol

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Now wait just a minute. There's a BIG difference between exposing a reptilian or gastropoid that's pretending to be human in a position of power in our government and comparing a normal human to a reptile or slug. While the latter may be a cheap shot at someone, in the former it is performing a public service, and civic-minded soul that I am, I feel it's my obligation to point these things out, regardless of how high the cost might end up being (preferably for someone else ;)).

    And what's with calling them "weird narratives"? People cumulatively pay billions of dollars to see the muppets in Star Wars, etc., so it can't be THAT weird to zoopomorphize (?) people.

    Hee hee, that does bring up something else that at this point I hesitate to even mention, but you might be right about Biden, and I shouldn't zoopomorphize him. It might be more appropriate to phytopomorphize him.
     
  12. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  13. Jama

    Jama Moderator
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    And then to put some extra icing on that cake, ol' Sleepy Joe referred to them as the Harris Biden administration. Talk about epic fail.

    At least they are both acknowledging what America already knows.... He will not be running things if elected.
     
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  14. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Can you imagine if Pence did that at a Trump rally? Trump would immediately tweet something inflammatory and Pence would be out the next day. Not to say that he's got the best management style, but there's no question about who is in charge in Trump's administration!
     
  15. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. We have people now that are against science and reality. It's like saying that smoking doesn't cause lung cancer ":because my uncle lived to 90 and smoked everyday." That's the kind of "logic" these people use. They throw away the accumulated data and scientific research for anecdotal evidence, and whatever that maniac Trump happens to spout that day.
     
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  16. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    Sounds about right. Republicans are already starting to absorb the QAnon fanatics. A good number of them probably believe all of that insanity too and are just waiting for it to become more mainstream within the GOP (as they did with Trump) to come out about it.
     
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  17. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Meh. With the Dems absorbing the communist party and antifa, there's not much the Reps could do that would be worse.
     
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  18. Jen7

    Jen7 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying that Trump should take a political stance either way when it comes to the virus, in fact it's just the opposite. He turned it into a political stance...masks vs. no mask, shut-down vs. no shut-down, etc. I'm saying if the CDC changes their info (as science does as they are learning about a new virus - we just happen to be seeing it in real time right now) Trump needs to explain that, instead of acting like it's some huge conspiracy.

    At the beginning there are several things he could have said that weren't at all political, like "We're monitoring the situation...we may have to potentially restrict gatherings or shut businesses down. Don't panic, but we are all in this together and we can get through it. If you can, stay home to minimize spread."

    Instead he was undermining governors' decisions to shut down, tweeting things like "LIBERATE MICHIGAN!" to rile up his followers. How absolutely F*CKING irresponsible and dangerous. The majority of his remaining followers have a conspiracy type of mindset as it is - so when he acts like he knows something or has some inside scoop, they latch onto it. They think he's this real, honest person who will say what no one else will... so his words are extremely, extremely influential during this pandemic. If he didn't know something, he should have said so instead of spouting off rubbish. He should be uplifting our scientists and explaining to the layman that science is ever-changing, not a conspiracy or something to distrust, instead of using his business/sales man persona to spout of BS to make it look like he knows everything. If people were guided to science instead of being instructed to basically distrust scientists, Nancy Pelosi being without a mask wouldn't have persuaded anyone because they would know that she should have been wearing one, period.

    So... that being said... even if it is a risky move, i can see how science is done with him.
     
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  19. Jen7

    Jen7 Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of Trump & Science:

     
  20. Jama

    Jama Moderator
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    What solid evidence or examples do you have to support this? Once again, you're making an anecdotal claim about something and misrepresenting it as being a matter of fact.

    I'm not trying to talk about you, but you tend to regularly make these generalized blanket statements about stuff like this and you hardly ever back it up with actual substance.

    You saying that they "probably believe this and that" tells me that you really don't know what's going on and that you're just making a wild guess based on your pre-existing bias. Tell me I'm wrong.

    Here's a good example of what I'm talking about: I know you're probably not going to read this post or you'll simply ignore me and talk to someone else, so maybe I'm wasting my time here. lol
     
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