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2020 election AKA The Biden Thread

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. JEA13

    JEA13 Well-Known Member

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  2. Jama

    Jama Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly why the whole reparations concept is such a horrible idea. Who would get the money? All black people? There's problems with that. Would we give it to people who were descendants of slaves? If so, then what's the criteria? Does one have to be at least 25% African? Or are they basing it off of a person's financial status? Do poor people only get money? Do people like Don Lemon, who are wealthy, but constantly cry and complain about being a victim, also receive money?

    There's too many considerations and complications to make something like this be fair and equitable. The politicians who are championing this idea, are only doing so to gain political points.
     
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  3. JEA13

    JEA13 Well-Known Member

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    I heard Yang is claiming his microphone was cut off at times so he couldn't join in the interrupting.
     
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  4. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Yang has the most obvious wealth distribution plan. Give everyone $1000. Since only 1/2 the country pays taxes, their taxes go up by $2000, one thousand to pay themselves $1000, and $1000 to pay someone else.
     
  5. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    Well, at least he was half right, and for the other part, in fact, yes, there was resentment when busing started. But that shouldn't have stopped the effort to get all children educated. First part: Yep. Second part: Accurate, but irrelevant and short-sighted.

    But I can't vote for Bernie unless he drops the indefensible idea of taking everyone's money to retroactively pay for past educational expenses of others. I'm not having that. I was furious at bailing out banks, and somehow I seem even more incensed by the idea of bailing out students. My guess at this point is that I am voting for Warren. I'm sad about having to ditch Bernie, but damn.
     
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  6. JEA13

    JEA13 Well-Known Member

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    I hadn't heard that. Perhaps the person controlling the microphones didnt want to cough up the $1000?
     
  7. JEA13

    JEA13 Well-Known Member

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    What I dont understand is railing against big pharma, banking , oil, etc but not recognizing "big education". College tuition has far outstripped inflation. When I went to college ,I worked minimum wage during the summer and was able to save more than enough to pay the entire years tuition plus books, lab supplies,etc. It wasnt enough to pay to live on campus but I lived with my parents close enough to commute. My brother who wanted to live on campus worked part time during the school year to pay for food and housing. Now ,at the same university, it is not possible to do that anymore. Some universities sit on billions of dollars in endowments and yet some politicians want some poor working class stiffs to chip in to pay an outrageous tuition for others who can potentially go onto high paying jobs. Why are tuitions so high? If it becomes free do you think all schools will jack up the price some more.
     
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  8. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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    The thing is when most of us went to college you could work part time and come out without owing the rest of your life in tuition loans. That's not the case anymore. You could also get a decent job without even having a college degree. Now to be a receptionist they want you to have a degree, so not having one isn't an option. Which is, I think, what the plan was. If they can keep you in debt you're more likely to take a job out of desperation. And even if you just go to a technical school many states have pushed through right to work, so even there the wages are lower than they would be if you were a union worker.

    It's all a scam by the rich so they can have all the money.
     
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  9. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree with your points.

    Bernie was originally drawing a distinction between public and private colleges and universities, which made perfect sense to me. In California, our junior colleges were built with the CLAIM AT THE TIME that they would provide two free years of college for California citizens. UC had relatively low rates for California students.

    Now, infuriatingly, UC is selling off a huge portion of entrances to foreign-born citizens because they can be charged vastly more. It is obscene. UC was meant o be a resource for California students, paid for by willing taxpayers. Now plenty of students who are fully qualified and worked hard for those spaces are having them ripped away so the Regents can live in one percenter luxury. F*** them.

    So, it is with huge animosity that I want California's public schools returned to California students and I am absolutely fine with the public university continuing free public education along with keeping the promise of free junior college.

    Only 13 percent of high school students went on to college education anywhere (public and private combined), back when I was graduating from high school. Taxes would easily have continued a free college education for the portion of that 13 percent who were California residents.

    It is absolutely outrageous that corruption in colleges keeps students in severe debt. I want that stopped, and I want it with the passion of a thousand suns. But no retroactivity. Sorry, it sucks, but, No.

    I'm fine with private universities charging whatever they want. It's grotesque, but it's their own business. Literally, a business for the rich.

    I do think new corruptions would follow. I think the UC Regents, for example would try to sell even more of the UC spaces to foreign-born students. I did a quick google and this was the first article. I didn't even bother to look down to see how disgusting it is for the Berkeley campus. UC Davis admits 60 percent of international students but 36 percent of in-state applicants.

    https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/education/article160029439.html

    It is already ugly and it will get uglier before it gets better. But that's a second fight. You have to start somewhere.
     
    #469 Lindigo, Jun 28, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
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  10. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Universities are chasing money now, not educating students. Spend billions on stadiums and sports teams for the revenues, cut funding for the English dept. It has been going on for awhile. If you really want to make education cheap, IMO, the simplest way to do so would be to ban the televising or recording of college sports completely.

    Strip away the revenue from non-educational areas and education would again become a priority.
     
  11. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that Democrats are making 2020 increasingly more difficult for themselves. And this debt relief program pushed by Bernie is only one part of it. Warren also has a program to bail people out from their educational expenses, but it doesn't go quite as far as Bernie. She is also for a universal daycare program and free college.

    Then we have just about all the other top polling candidates with some version of free college. I think some are just pandering, but they will be called out on it too in the general election.

    Republicans keep repeating the world socialism for a reason. It polls well for them in an attack against Democrats. If a candidate emerges that can easily fit this stereotype then the odds are good for the GOP to retain the White House.

    Meeting the extreme right with the extreme left is not the way to go in this election. And it's very frustrating to watch this primary season unfold. It's like watching a slow motion car crash.

    Democrats should be pushing for three main things: protection of the current social safety network along with strengthening the ACA, instituting a fairer tax code and restoring normalcy to government.
     
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  12. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    That will never happen though. College sports are big money for the universities. Unlike professional sports too, they're not spending money on huge player salaries. But they are getting the TV deals and all the merchandising.
     
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  13. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I know where Warren stands. That's why I like her. I am a Democratic Socialist. I just didn't know there was a term for it until Bernie came along.

    I think tax-payer-paid-for public universities can and should provide a free college education for that state's college students, just as we do for elementary and high schools. It would be wonderful to have free universal child care. It can cost almost all of one parent's paycheck. It's too bad both parents have to work, but that is the state of the American economy. In most households, both parents have to work. The richer the family is, the less likely the mother is working, so that sort of takes care of itself. Most moms would prefer to be with their children than be working. Working sucks. Anyway, the benefit to poorer families is enormous, so I'm for it. I also want universal health care while continuing private health care for those who are willing to pay for it. My employer (federal government) never paid any part of my health care benefit, although I was grateful they had the clout to get good rates for us. My parents (teachers) never paid a dime for the exact same Kaiser health care benefit. At least they didn't have any monthly payment whatsoever, and they had lower and fewer co-pays.

    I just wish all of these societal advances weren't timed with this need to take down Trump. I can't help how other people vote. I'm just voting for the person who has the policies I like best and crossing my fingers that even more millions of people won't vote for Trump this time around, enough millions to squeak us through the f***ing Electoral College this time.

    People didn't like Hillary, people don't like the word socialist. And they really hate Trump. So we'll anxiously wait and see.
     
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  14. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    Your point above though is the key one for me in this election. The goal should be to get Trump out of the White House and pushing countless programs that will be labeled unrealistic at best, socialistic at worst, isn't the way to get it done.

    If you consider that it took decades from when Truman first proposed a healthcare program until the ACA was passed, it's clear that most change in the country is slow and incremental. That's why, no matter what our personal feelings might be about these individual policies being proposed, to me it's irresponsible for pushing this now. It's like the Titanic is going down but the staff onboard is discussing how to build a better ship next time instead of getting people off the damn boat.
     
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  15. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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  16. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    As far as I can make out, everyone who says getting Trump out is the first priority goes on to say they are voting for Biden. I hate Biden. Of course I would vote for him or for anyone but Trump in the general election, but nothing would make me vote for him in the primary. I hope Bide finishes self-destructing soon so people can get past that combo notion.
     
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  17. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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    Many people (and not saying the people posting here) seem to be disappointed that the Democratic candidate isn't Republican enough, and not pandering enough for Republican votes.

    Most Trump voters would never vote for anyone BUT Trump, no matter how much a candidate might pretend to court them.

    The goal should be to get rid of Trump, but we shouldn't be more concerned with Republican voters than we are with Democratic voters. That plays right in to Trump's hands. And Biden is with Bernie at the bottom of the list as far as I'm concerned, and the more he talks the worse it gets.
     
  18. PepperAnn

    PepperAnn Well-Known Member

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    But statistics say he is the one by far that could beat him. Which is starting to scare me.
     
  19. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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    But that's only based on his proximity to Obama, not on his policies. Other than that he doesn't really have anything to offer. His Uncle Joe talks just end up offending people because he's so out of touch.

    And people forget all of the times during Obama's administration where Biden ended up being an embarrassment.

    Also, Harris is right on his ass after the debates. Warren gained too. Biden's numbers fell significantly after the debate too, so it wasn't just the women picking up numbers. Bernie continues to stall/drop.

    I don't think Biden can beat Trump. Harris maybe can though, even Warren. They both had meetings with Trump voters in Trump states and got cheered. Especially if they pick a Klobuchar or Buttigieg as VP, who are more centrist.
     
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  20. PepperAnn

    PepperAnn Well-Known Member

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    Yeah you're right, Harris and Warren did make a major jump. Ok I feel better. Lol
     

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