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2020 election

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by Morgotha, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. Jama

    Jama Well-Known Member

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    If you happen to have an issue with my remarks about New York, you're more than welcome to talk about it with me instead of talking about me in a backhanded manner to others.

    I was born in New York and I spent a large portion of my life as a resident of New York. I lived in Plattsburgh, White Plains and Schenectady and I have dozens of family members who've lived in New York their entire lives, in various parts of the state. We discuss various issues that affect New Yorkers.

    I care deeply about NY and I consider it my second home, so please do not dismiss my point of view on NY simply because you don't like my political stances and because I currently live in Washington. Those two things have nothing to do with my level of knowledge or understanding of where I'm from. You should know the difference.
     
  2. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    She may be smart but acting like is the only smart person in congress is going to isolate her into ineffectiveness. No measures can pass with 4 votes. She needs allies. Making enemies of your entire party is in no way going to progress your agenda. Its like watching survivor and the person who thinks they have every one wrapped around their finger is getting played by everybody in the confessional. She needs to stop acting like a queen and recognize that she is one, just ONE, representative.
     
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  3. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    I’m so glad to hear that. OK, Actually, I do lose a little patience with people who comment on NY but reside on the other side of the country but since you really know your shit, mea culpa. I wasn't only singling you out, you were just the last one to have posted and it’s one of those days.

    Plattsburgh. I have a friend whose hubby was stationed at the Air Force Base. Never got further North than the High Peaks myself, but it’s beautiful up there.

    So, you really think AOC is a flash in the pan? I admit she can be flamboyant but let’s see. We may not agree on politics but that’s ok. We like it here in the Empire State. My daughter is an animation major in college. If she Ends up moving to the west coast for work it’s gonna kill me, lol.
     
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  4. Jama

    Jama Well-Known Member

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    Okay. That's reasonable. It's not like I've never had an off day and taken it out on someone here when I thought I smelled bullshit. lol

    But seriously, we've had a couple of NY-based discussions and I genuinely think that you might be misunderstanding my point of view. Not your fault... I haven't been very in depth with my positions like the Amazon/Long Island City issue. I just jumped out there and said what I said. However, I am not quite the outsider who's looking in, that you might have suspected I was.

    Anyway, Yes.... New York will always be my "home state" and the North Country is beautiful. In fact, it's got a very similar look to the Portland area in terms of the topography/landscape. Very green, lots of mountains, etc. Except it is much colder in the winter and a lot more humid in the summer, and definitely not nearly as many people as Portland.

    I love every part of that state. My family and I took a mega road trip around the entire state 3 years ago. Rental car at JFK, hung out in Queens with some family and then Manhattan for a few days. Drove to the end of Long Island and I had no idea how large it was. Then we drove back to mainland NY. Went to Sleepy Hollow. West Point. Orange County Choppers. Then up I-87 to Saratoga Springs to hang with a cousin for one day, then my home town Plattsburgh (And Lake Placid 45 minutes away!). Hung with more family. Then we drove to Watertown because I've never been to Northwestern NY (Hint: pretty much looks the same as Plattsburgh, lol)

    Then we want back down to the middle of the state. Went to Cooperstown for baseball HOF, then we want to some small town about 30 minutes away to see this Amish community. They were doing some flea market type of thing. My family's never seen this stuff before, so we had to do it. Then we went to Buffalo and Niagara Falls (more family) then we shot through Binghampton, to go to Scranton, PA. (I'm a big fan of The Office, so I had to check out some landmarks). Then back to JFK to fly home! But the trip almost killed us. Oy vey! It was worth it though. My family got to experience a 1 week shotgun tour of a part of my life in the "first home" that I truly love.

    Back to the political stuff. I don't think AOC is a flash in the pan. I don't really know what to make of her. I probably shouldn't say that she's stupid even though she's said a lot of dumb things. I think she is very talented with her social acumen and "political street smarts" if you will. Honestly, the thing that bothers me most is that she's a Freshman congresswoman who's commanding a little too much attention. If She was a him and was also a Republican, I would still feel the same way.

    I hope your daughter is able to find work that is close to home, so you don't have to worry about her or be too distant.
     
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  5. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    Gerrymandering dates back to the early 1800s. It's named after the governor of Massachusetts at the time, Gerry. His party was in control and divided up some districts to benefit them. There are some districts today that are particularly bizarre where you have snaking ones that go through a state that no one could legitimately. It's sort of gerrymandering on steroids.

    But if I look at a map and the shape of district x basically makes sense but I take a little bit away from Y and and then give up a little on the other side from x to z, how can one really say I'm being unfair? What makes the original drawn up district right or wrong? It's not as if we're making them out of perfect sided rectangles. And that's not even practical anyway, because of how population centers are and how our states are shaped.

    Just like any decision in government, you need to be in power when redstricting takes place and then you get to make decisions.
     
  6. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    My biggest problem with AOC is that she's taking any problems she might have with leadership and airing them out on Twitter. She's only been in Congress for 6 months now and it's just not cool to be handling things in this manner.

    From the outside looking in I see her more though as someone who could hold a congressional seat for many years, but not a person that could move successfully beyond that point. That's of course putting aside her evolving etc, just from her current approach. How do you feel though her chances would be in a statewide race?
     
  7. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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    In my mind, the difference is INTENT. Redistricting can be done for legitimate reason, population changes, etc.

    But if you are drawing the boundaries simply to remove a particular politician, or to make certain votes mean more than other votes, then it is unfair.

    I don't believe EITHER party can be trusted to draw boundaries ever. We should come up with a new method for doing it that removes politics from it entirely. There's just too much desire for ****ery.

    And I can't believe that government INTENDED to rig elections for decades so that the people's voice isn't heard as part of normal government. Although they should have seen it coming because politicians have always been complete assholes since the beginning of time.
     
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  8. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    TBH, I don’t have a good take on her since I don’t follow downstate politics as closely as I should. We have enough to keep us busy in Western NY, with all the crap that happens here, lol. Having confessed that, I probably know as much about her specifically as any one else looking in from the outside so to speak. Since I don’t have a Twitter account I had no idea, for instance, she was airing her grievances on that platform.

    I have read up on her background, and I’ve watched her on late night TV explain her New Green Deal among other things. She appeared well spoken... thoughtful and intelligent when explaining her ideas, humorous and easy going. She defeated a long time entrenched opponent to win her Democratic primary and her Republican opponent to win her district which tells me she’s formidable on the campaign trail and can connect with voters....at least in the area she represents. There is potential there.

    She was an organizer for Bernie Sanders 2016 campaign which might explain her approach but she needs to be careful, IMO. I think she’s basking in the attention she’s currently getting and there’s nothing wrong with that but I find myself agreeing with, I believe it was Zed, in that she has to settle down, find allies and do the hard work necessary to move her proposals forward. She’s not doing herself any favors by acting in a manner which can back fire in a big way. Congress may be a labyrinth but she has to learn how to navigate through it successfully.

    In a statewide election, say for the senate, at this moment in time, she could never hope to unseat Schumer or Gillibrand.
     
    #548 purriwinkle, Jul 12, 2019 at 1:00 PM
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019 at 7:14 PM
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  9. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    I just wanted to say what a great road trip! Hope everyone had fun. There’s really a lot to do in NY. Saratoga Springs is one of my favorite places. We’re not visiting relatives however but spending our hard earned cash at the Roosevelt Spa for a mineral soak and massage and then off to the races! Lol. Gotta go when the track’s up and running. I know jack squat about horses but we seem to have a good time (placing those small bets) based on nothing more than the horses names.:rolleyes: Which is odd, of course, since I never make time to go to the Finger Lakes race track when I’m home. Maybe I’ll have to give it a go...hmmmmm

    One other interesting thing you may have missed in Watertown if you were only there for the day. I have to agree that it’s nothing unique to Northern towns unless you’re going to Drum but they still have an old time Drive In Movie theater, the Black River Drive In which is a fun experience if you or the family have never been to one.
     
    #549 purriwinkle, Jul 14, 2019 at 10:36 AM
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2019 at 12:14 PM
  10. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    It's difficult though when you think about it. Ideally you want more competitive districts. If one party has a lock on a seat then they don't have to worry about finding any middle ground. We see a lot of that in politics today. People, particularly Republicans, are more concerned about a primary challenge than the general election. This pushes politics more to the extremes.
     
  11. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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  12. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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