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5-5 "Self-Help" Complaints and Criticisms

Discussion in 'Episode 505 - Self-Help' started by westwingnut, Nov 9, 2014.

  1. Necrophile213

    Necrophile213 Well-Known Member

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    This whole episode could have been condensed into a couple of scenes quite easily. I didnt see any mention of how ridiculous that it's just now being revealed to the audience that Abe and Rosita are a couple and how little sense that makes, but other than that all my complaints have been well covered here. I couldn't stand Abe from the start, but saw potential in him. This episode ruined him as a character. No way to take him seriously after the Parkin lot scene.
     
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  2. Jimofthedead

    Jimofthedead New Member

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    Watching Eugene beaten to a pulp made the episode. Now if only that cut on Abe's hand would get infected with zombie blood he could be finished, as well. Two of the most unlikeable characters on TV. This whole "lets go to DC" crowd is lame, even Rosita with her hoop earrings. Hey, lets all hang out by the water hole, catch fish and sing kombaya.
     
  3. BatmansHooker

    BatmansHooker Well-Known Member

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    The flashbacks were what spoiled this episode, I think. As a story, it was heartbreaking. We should have felt heartbroken for Abraham. He defended his family, who became afraid of him and left him. Upon finding them, they were already dead. He's about to kill himself when Eugene wanders by and gives Abe a reason to live - to save the world. And then Eugene's lies are exposed.

    We SHOULD have felt awful for Abe. But the reason many people didn't was because the flashbacks were so disjointed and unclear. It's a bit of a shame, I feel like this episode would have been pretty great if it'd all made sense.
     
  4. CheesyBirdMess

    CheesyBirdMess Well-Known Member

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    Abrahams backstory - we saw it - but no one in his group was told about it.. Might have redeemed him if had SPOKEN about what happened with Maggie, or Rosita, or Glenn even an unconscious Eugene!!! - THAT Would have been SO touching! Him telling an unconscious Eugene and basically telling him he was literally about the bite the bullet when he found him! Maybe have Maggie or Rosita overhear it!

    Plus how that whole storyline went down - without us knowing the comic background - all it looks like is he bashed the heads in of some guys for the last can of peas...
     
  5. Z-Man

    Z-Man Well-Known Member

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    Willing to bet that he puts a narrative to that flashback at some point in the future. That puts his story into "Mystery" category (for those that have not read the comic) and will be like an "Ah-Ha!" moment for the viewers.

    "So that is what those flashbacks were about!"

    I hate to reference this in conjunction with TWD (I mean, I REALLY hate to do this!), but in Z-Nation, one of the characters (Addison) kept having flashbacks that made no sense until she came out and explained her history to her boyfriend. I believe this may be what they are shooting for with Abe... Leave him a bit of a mystery for those that don't already know.

    And now I need a hot shower... I feel dirty.
     
  6. BatmansHooker

    BatmansHooker Well-Known Member

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    Maybe he'll tell Eugene in the second half. I mean, they HAVE to have a conversation sometime where Eugene and Abraham patch things up a bit. Abe telling the story to Eugene, telling him what happened to his family, that he'd almost given up before they met, and saying something like "I don't like that you lied. But I get it. You did what you had to to survive." That'd be good.

    I've said this before, but TWD would probably be so much better on Netflix lol. It's made to be binge watched, not watched once a week over 16 weeks. They have a thing for not giving us all the pieces at once.
     
  7. CheesyBirdMess

    CheesyBirdMess Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I hope you guys are right and it gets fleshed out better in the future... I had expected Tara's integration into the group to be more difficult, and have more people say more to her about it. At least have Michonne and her have a moment since she was right there with them as Hershel got the chop, maybe have Michonne with Rick when they had their talk, and Michonne could have said she saw her hiding behind the car and saw the child and the woman with The Gov, and knows Tara lost people like they have lost people because of him.

    It really seems in these last few seasons that the personal interactions aren't there, or when they do get done it's very quick and fast - very little substance to them.
     
  8. BatmansHooker

    BatmansHooker Well-Known Member

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    Nice point on the interactions. Someone said earlier on the forum (forgot who and what thread) that Gimple tends to let the plot drive the show, rather than the characters. I agree with that statement. There's some very strong characters, but they just don't get the focus and build up that they need.
     
  9. Gaycandybacon

    Gaycandybacon Well-Known Member

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    I think when Rick said to Tara that Glenn vouched for her, after that it really wasn't gonna be difficult. He knew she was pretty much defenseless by the look on her face across from the fence. I doubt the group/Rick was gonna pull an Andrea on her.
     
  10. CheesyBirdMess

    CheesyBirdMess Well-Known Member

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    True, plus she had sweet sugar t!ts.
     
  11. BatmansHooker

    BatmansHooker Well-Known Member

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    Tara's proven where her loyalties lie. I was expecting a little more backlash from the group before season 5, but as Rick said all along, he spoke to Tara through the fence because he knew she didn't want to be there. Plus Glenn's word carries a lot of weight.

    The only person who really would have been justified in being hostile to Tara would have been Maggie. Maybe Michonne, being on the other side of the fence, but Michonne knows first hand from how he charmed Andrea that Govvie was manipulative.
     
  12. Prufrock

    Prufrock Well-Known Member

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    I think it was a bit of an injustice for that to unfold, the way it did on TV. For me that was such a poignant scene in the comic. Hopefully like [MENTION=25242]Z-Man[/MENTION] said, the dots will be connected, later on.
     
  13. Z-Man

    Z-Man Well-Known Member

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    It is my hope they will. His backstory made me shift my opinion of him in an instant in the comic. He went from cartoonish caricature of an 80's action hero to layered human being with deep wounds and a heart as big as the wasteland. I could see myself in his shoes very easily were the world to lean towards the undead.
     
  14. Prufrock

    Prufrock Well-Known Member

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    That is exactly what made it so touching. I wish they would have added the friends/neighbors turned predator, because that was just the extra knife in the heart of Abe's tragedy.
     
  15. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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    People who haven't read the comics are really in the dark about Abe's story. The flashback told most of the story except for why he killed the people in the store. I think perhaps he will finish telling his story to Rick like in the comics.
     

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