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[603] Thank You- Complaints and Criticisms!

Discussion in 'Episode 603 - Thank You' started by Neuropyramidal, Oct 23, 2015.

  1. JEA13

    JEA13 Well-Known Member

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    I'd seen that one a while back but forgot about it. It really got me laughing this morning.
     
  2. westwingnut

    westwingnut Well-Known Member

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    From the HuffPo article:

    [​IMG]

    From a technical standpoint, this is worse than the Magic Van, because it is hard to make an object that weighs a couple thousand pounds fall exactly how you want it to. (Really, they need to re-work that whole scene so that Daryl and Carol crawl out of the upside-down van. They already have the shot of the van falling on its roof.)

    As to unlevering of a Glock, I consider that a sin of omission, in that they didn't communicate with the prop department about needing a gun that went "click". Here, they chose to make a shot that violated the laws of physics, so it's a sin of commission.

    To make this shot reasonably plausible, they should have had Nicholas turn away to this right at the last moment. But even then the spray would have hit Glenn's face dead-on.
     
    #122 westwingnut, Oct 28, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
  3. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I understand that people can die of disease, but why assume Judith will? Most people don't die in childhood, after all.
     
  4. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Look closely at Glenn's hair, it's hanging out to the left, and the shot comes from the right. Obviously there is a gale-force wind that is coming from the right, displacing Glenn's hair, and making the blood which previously splattered towards the right from Nicholas' head get pushed back to the left and onto Glenn's head.
     
  5. Zalanii

    Zalanii Member

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    Many babies did. If you had 10 children you would be lucky to see 2 live to adulthood. Especially in poverty, or during famine or wartime.
     
  6. WalkingBuckeye

    WalkingBuckeye Well-Known Member

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    She'll surmise what happened b/c Michonne will tell her that it was Glenn and Nicholas who went off to blow up the feed store. Maggie knows about both of N's prior failures of integrity and courage and she'll reasonably infer how it went down: either Nicholas's cowardice left Glenn trying to save him, or his ineptitude got them both killed. Thus her possible anger at Glenn, amidst all the grief, for allowing Nicholas to go with him.
     
  7. Prufrock

    Prufrock Well-Known Member

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    My main beef is that Glenn's mustache was just really about to come to fruition.
     
  8. Zalanii

    Zalanii Member

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    It was such a cute little stache
     
  9. Mandylion

    Mandylion New Member

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    Ok. So I'm sure we'll be getting answers to the whole Glenn thing eventually this season so I won't even start with that.
    I joined the forum today because I've been thinking about this episode all day since I watched it and came to a conclusion this was probably one of the worst episodes I've seen (yes, I've seen them all).

    Someone already mentioned the fact that they kept making rookie mistakes alike in the first series which I absolutely agree with. The whole ep seemed like a huge Murphy's law manifest. Twisted ankles, RV's motor not starting, aimlessly running all over the place in hysteria.

    In the pet shop Michonne started to bicker with Heath over "oh, you seem to have a problem with me" whiny bullshit which seems really out of character to me. Michonne, who has for the most part kept her mouth shut in so many situations in where she should've said something, now all of a sudden starts some bitchy nag while surrounded by a herd of walkers? Okay.

    When Michonne and David or what's his name were climbing over the fence IT TOOK AGES. There were two people gunning the walkers down profusely and still even Michonne couldn't make the climb? Come ON! You really expect me to believe that a few weeks in Alexandria totally got her to lose her physique? Really, that scene went on for hours! And them staring from the opposite side of the fence when the walkers were yumming up the guy just minutes later. (They stood and wathed that shit for HOURS!) Shoot him in the head and run you pansies! Geez!

    I actually had to watch the rest of the episode (since the last scene with Glenn) by just jumping through. I said I won't go into the whole Glenn ordeal, but I gotta say that the whole scene looked like it was just about gore and nothing else. Like a music video or something. The walker extras were the stars. It's like the director just wanted to do a great gore scene.

    Andrew Lincoln - truly great acting work at the end of the episode in the RV. That's basically the only good thing about this episode.
     
    #129 Mandylion, Oct 28, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
  10. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    "And them staring from the opposite side of the fence when the walkers were yumming up the guy just minutes later." Thanks for the giggle.

    And Welcome! Totally agree with you.

    But, I just watched it again today, and the scene of the survivors watching the walkers yumming up David looks shorter now. Anyone else have that experience?
     
  11. Prufrock

    Prufrock Well-Known Member

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    Rarely to those 2 words- do not go together
     
    #131 Prufrock, Oct 28, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
  12. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Do you have a link for such a high death rate? That seems high for even the middle ages. With handwashing alone dropping the spread of disease by 50%, it seems an unrealistically grim picture to paint for Judith's future.
     
  13. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Sure, I can believe that. She'll probably also blame Michonne for letting Glenn go off with him alone, and for letting him go in the first place. I guess in the end she'll be able to figure out what happened if they find the bodies by seeing the sideways bullet hole in Nicholas' head.
     
  14. drgnfille

    drgnfille New Member

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    Agree with what has been said here regarding the whole Glenn controversy (the event itself, the plausibility of said event, not putting victims out of their misery, ninja walkers, etc.) and just wanted to add another tidbit I noticed that doesn't help the plausibility of the scene: the trajectory of Glenn and Nicholas's fall and how their bodies are facing the wrong way on the ground.


    I mean, they fell off to the side but still forward, so their feet should have been next to/closer to the dumpster rather than their heads. Maybe Nicholas's body would have flopped around a little bit, but not enough to reverse the angle of their trajectory. After getting over the shock value of what happened, it's all I can notice when I rewatch the scene - how did he/they end up like that? Of course, with the phantom ammo and the blood splattering from the wrong side, it's a pretty minor detail, but when people hypothesize that Glenn might crawl under the dumpster to save himself, I keep wondering how the hell he got into that position in the first place. Guess I can chalk it up to just one of many details which make the entire thing seem like a cheap fake-out.
     
  15. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    "In early-modern times, child mortality was very high; in 18th century Sweden every third child died, and in 19th century Germany every second child died." http://ourworldindata.org/data/population-growth-vital-statistics/child-mortality/#

    Lots of interesting info at that link.

    "The latest data refers to 2013. Global health has improved hugely. Particularly those countries that had the worst health in the 1950s experienced the most dramatic improvements. China for example reduced its child mortality from 28.4% to now 1.3%."

    I think you are right, though, that our people have herd immunity for many illnesses and completely understand the need to wash hands and to make every attempt to boil or otherwise purify their water.

    Maternal mortality was more shocking than childhood mortality.

    Editing to add another good link. It explains why China's numbers were so bad for a time. Also it has a nifty animated graph. :)
    "In 1950, 59 countries had child mortality rates of more than 200 per 1,000 live births — in those countries, more than one fifth of all children died before the age of five. In 2012, no countries had child mortality rates that high."
    http://www.businessinsider.com/life-expectancy-and-child-mortality-over-history-2014-1
     
    #135 Lindigo, Oct 29, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2015
  16. Cavedeth

    Cavedeth Member

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    I've been pretty quiet this week. Mainly because work has kept me way too fugging busy. But, it's also because I am still digesting the whole situation.

    My observations have lead me to the same conclusion as you: regarding the fall and camera angles.

    I liken it to the magical van swan dive. BUT in this case, with that herd pressing forward. I could see them hitting the clusterclump head/ shoulders first, and flipping over like the fulcrum being their upper body. To me it makes sense the head/shoulders would have been the most significant force of the fall off the dumpster, the legs falling between the arms of the walkers.

    So yeah, they could have landed with Dick on top of Glenn and Glenn's head towards the dumpster. It's easier to work out than the miraculous van of the overpass landing on all 4s. We can just call that the tabbyvan. But I digress.

    It still seems like an impossible situation

    But, it IS fiction after all, so is it worth nit picking ever little bit to forsake the story? At times I am drawn in enough I can see it in storyboards or something similar. It's part of what's fun about watching any interestingly written show. You can immerse yourself or not and let little things 'tear tiny pieces from your soul until it's completely unbearable'. . . Or wait until it plays out before completely freaking out.

    I am torn on some of the details but I am not going to let it ruin my watching experience. I will reserve judgment.

    My biggest gripe is that there were a couple of situations where the main characters had a chance to shorten someone's suffering. They didn't, but that could have been a message too. It wasn't that they didn't want to, maybe it was because they hesitated while they decided what they should really do. It may have been to illustrate that they were going through new unfamiliar decisions.

    Motherdick! I rambled too much!
     
  17. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the links. I could understand a higher than now mortality rate for Judith, but still don't believe an 80% mortality rate would be reasonable -- well, discounting walker attacks.
     
  18. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    If you exclude the walkers.

    According to this paper, "40 percent of children failed to reached adulthood in the seventeenth century." We didn't keep vital stats in the Colonial era. England did some census surveys, but that era's data is mostly from personal records.
    http://www.class.uh.edu/gl/usdeath.htm

    Oddly enough, most resources I looked at estimated the medieval infant survival rate also at about 40%.

    A separate issue is the expected shorter lifespan of about 40 years. Even when people survived early childhood, the diseases kept coming.

    Editing to add that humans could have and would have lived just as long then as we do now--except for the diseases, plagues, famines, wars, infections from minor injuries, colds turning into pneumonia, etc. The very, very lucky did live to old age.

    Amongst my friends, every one of us can point to why we would have died in middle age but for modern medicine.
     
    #138 Lindigo, Oct 29, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2015
  19. Zalanii

    Zalanii Member

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    Knowledge of cleanliness, and boiling water would help, but I think that you are unaware of just how fragile we are without civilization. It's worrisome, just look at how fast disease spreads during a natural disaster. Now our team lives in one large never ending disaster.

    I was glad when season 4 at least addressed it, and when the dead come back...suddenly the flu is much more horrifying.
     
  20. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    It's a different interpretation of the same data. In the middle ages, sure 25-50% of people died. Keep in mind that no one knew what caused disease until recently. Pasteur's germ theory was in the mid 1800's, and cells were first discovered in the 16-1700's. To compare a middle ages death rate with a current one without medicine would (hopefully) be inaccurate. Even in China in the early part of the century the death rate was high - but not that high. Not using human feces for fertilizer, washing your hands, boiling water, not eating bad/spoiled food, etc., would cut out most of Judith's risk. Also, she's in a small group, not a large city, so the poor health conditions that caused gaol fever, etc. wouldn't exist for her.
     

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