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Can't kill a tank like that

Discussion in 'Episode 408 - Too Far Gone' started by CyberianK, Dec 3, 2013.

  1. CyberianK

    CyberianK New Member

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    Hello there,

    I loved the last episode but when I saw that scene I laughed hard at the hollywood logic.

    I have been shooter and loader on a Leopard 2 tank in the army. And I also know the Gun used in the M60 tank as it is the same that has been used in the Leopard 1 tank and I have seen that as well.

    The way it works is that the chamber is sealed by a massive block of steel (base piece/breechblock, not sure about the exact english word).
    Here some pic to see how that looks like http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/easo2/Tank Meusem Puckapunyal/DSCF5185.jpg (did not find a pic of the exact gun)
    This is meant to withstand any force generated by the ammunition. Even if the gun is loaded with an HE round and a grenade would detonate (which I am not sure it can) that round the base piece will block that. The maximum that can happen it that this would destroy the gun barrel.
    There are some pictures from WW2 tanks where that happened and the HE round exploded in the barrel. You see warped and sometimes splintered gun barrels.

    Also a grenade cannot roll into the crew compartment of the tank. Now I do not exactly remember the breechblock of the L7 gun. But even if there was no additional closing mechanism (Slider/Snapper) when unloaded and the chamber was not sealed a grenade would explode in the Breechblock and not roll into the inside. The fragment and explosion would not be directed at the munitions stored in the upper back and side part of the turret. Also larger caliber tank shells (105/120mm) have a solid steel case that can take quite the beating as the loader rams it into the gun with strong force. There are a number of safety mechanism so a shell can't explode accidentaly. So if no force was targeted directly at the fuse and the shell not completely destroyed which ricochet grenade fragments from that distance won't do theres no way that shell in the ammunitions store would explode.

    My point is there is no way of killing an experienced tank crew with such simple means. A tank is designed to keep stuff on the outside. Now you can argue the Governors men were just stupid of course that can be true but even then I think that scene is a work of fiction. Which is OK to do by the way.

    Anyway I got carried away. I have to watch that scene again but I am pretty sure that was wrong.

    But I liked the episode. You are welcome to discuss further. Especially if you got more details on the inside of the M60 and the Breechblock on that gun variant.
     
  2. Blueman

    Blueman Well-Known Member

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    I do not know much about tanks but I think it is possible. The grenade somehow got into the tank compartment via the opening that a round is normally loaded into the main gun (using layman's term).
    And, the tank crew was not an experienced tank crew. It was likely only Mitch, being a tank driver, knew about tanks and he was not driving one but he was in the commander copula. So, he might have given a quick course on tank driving to somebody else who actually drove the tank. Anyway, other tank crew (not Mitch) might stupidly store inflammable stuff inside the compartment which caused the fire when the grenade exploded.

    I suppose they could show Daryl throwing the grenade into the tank via the commander copula and then an explosion came with a lot of smoke....this would also make sense.

    This is how I explained to myself...lol
     
    #2 Blueman, Dec 3, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  3. Firewallcano

    Firewallcano Member

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    It was really there so people could go. OMG DARYL KILLED A TANK OMG HE SO EPIC

    Honestly though the scene was good even though Daryl randomly found a grenade from somewhere
     
  4. CyberianK

    CyberianK New Member

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    OK, if

    A.) They didn't seal the chamber/load a new shell
    and
    B.) The guns breechblock of an M60s gun has no additional seal in unloaded condition
    and
    C.) They stored some extra fuel inside the turret (suppoed to do that on the outside of the tank)

    then it happened as Blueman said
     
  5. TGO

    TGO Well-Known Member

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    You do realise it's a tv Show.
     
  6. CommonSense

    CommonSense Member

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    So was the Waltons; but you never saw John Boy buzzing around Walton's Mountain in a time machine, and Grandpa didn't go around arm wrestling talking bears. It was a fictional story setting, but they were able to keep things realistic.

    Just because it's a TV show isn't an excuse for fantasy. And yes, I realize, the whole plot of apocalyptic zombie sci-fi is based on a fantasy premise; but the setting is supposed to be a realistic world, with the one and only twist of having the zombie plague. Period. The rest of the laws of physics are still in play.
     
  7. Just Because

    Just Because Member

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    not gonna lie...those are some horrible comparisons.
     
  8. Kevin A. Dixon

    Kevin A. Dixon New Member

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    Agreed. This is a ZA and you have 1 experienced tanker with a crew of straggler's and civilians for lack of a better word. Mitch may have been in the army but he looked like a 45 year old douche that never moved up in rank due to his lack of understanding the basics in humanity. Being that they were staying in a camp I'm sure they had fuel, small arms ammunition, clothing, bedding and much more crap inside that tank that definitely did not need to be there. It was just like showing the guard tower when Rick initially met with TG. There was nothing in the tower that would start and keep a perfectly level bonfire going.

    These are just scenes to show drama and awesomeness. A chance to let yourself go and enjoy the survival of the apocalypse, not to take life lessons and prepare yourself for battle.
     
  9. RarreKZ

    RarreKZ Well-Known Member

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    Could work, the whole tank didn't explode, it just burned in flames.
     
  10. highway234

    highway234 Member

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    it was really cool, though, so therefore it's totally ok.

    it kinda reminded me of the great ad lib in "raiders of the lost ark" when harrison ford ad libbed shooting that scimitar-wielding guy. the whole fight i was thinking, what in god's name are they gonna do about that friggin' TANK? it's gonna take them hours to destroy that tank! and then darryl just pops a grenade down the cannon all casual-like, he hardly even looks over. it was pretty much coolness epitomized. i'm not even a big darryl kool-aid drinker but that was a real choice moment in the darryl lexicon.
     
    #10 highway234, Dec 3, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2013
  11. mtamborra

    mtamborra Member

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    The tank did not get DESTROYED....you guys make it sound like it blew up into bits from a grenade....hey chucked it down the barrel and it blew and flames shot out the top...they did some damage to it, they did not actually destroy it......let it go!
     
  12. RustyNail

    RustyNail Member

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    As far as we know, it was just Mitch operating the tank. He had to have been operating the tank via the commander override, as no one came scurrying out of the drivers position. After every shot he would have to drop down to the loader position, reload, and then return to the commanders position, to move, or traverse and fire with the override. The tank was really not that effective... It knocked down the chain link fences and frightened people by going boom.

    A grenade would not overpressure the barrel. I wouldn't say that it would be harmless though. While the breech would certainly contain the blast, it might be damaged. Had it rolled up against a spent cartridge the fragments would certainly knurl the cartridge in place rendering the main gun useless. In this case, it would be plausible to assume that Mitch was in the process of reloading for several reasons. First, he would have seen Daryl toss the grenade in, and likely fired on him with the .50 caliber*. Second, he came squirting out of the turret before the grenade detonated, and not the cupola.

    *Mitch may have not had ammo for the .50 in the first place, or could have already pissed it all away when he jacked the tank, as he would have likely have been firing from that rather than a top-mounted M-60 in the opening exchange of fire after Herschel's beheading.
     
  13. tallahasseehero

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    I thought maybe the fact that he put the grenade in right after it fired a shell meant that the chamber may have been unsealed. I dont care too much though, I am willing to suspend reality for that awesome scene.
     
  14. ctx1769

    ctx1769 Member

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    they must have been reloading with the breech open they were shooting a lot "Grenade ...... Boom!!!"
     
  15. Dallas Mcmillan

    Dallas Mcmillan New Member

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    For the sake of reality, you are most likely 99% correct. but some thoughts....and history.

    most frag grenades these days are about 3 inches in diameter. the 105 is 4.1 inches, so it would fit down the barrel. you could hear the grenade roll down the barrel and rattle around on the floor of the tank in the episode, so maybe they wrote it that the breech block was open. i mean, they do clean the gun every once in a while, right? so dummies could make that mistake. also, no one was on top of the tank maning a machine gun. the machine gun ports were empty (no .50 on the right or .30 on the left in the coax positions, and nothing on the pintel on top. ) historically, tanks in the infantry assault not supported by infantry themselves fall victim to grenades, ied's and rpg's. at the time Daryl slid the grenade down the barrel, all of it's "infantry" support had been wiped out by Ricks group. he could just have easily poured a bucket of gasonline down the hatch or tossed the grenade down the hatch, but a little dramtic license is ok I guess. I suggested last week using a thermite grenade taped to a 2x4 and placed on the rear hull of the tank to burn it out. i'm sure the grenade can be explained by being a left over of the ones the governor stole from the NG in season 3.

    ]Hello there,

    I loved the last episode but when I saw that scene I laughed hard at the hollywood logic.

    I have been shooter and loader on a Leopard 2 tank in the army. And I also know the Gun used in the M60 tank as it is the same that has been used in the Leopard 1 tank and I have seen that as well.

    The way it works is that the chamber is sealed by a massive block of steel (base piece/breechblock, not sure about the exact english word).
    Here some pic to see how that looks like http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q100/easo2/Tank Meusem Puckapunyal/DSCF5185.jpg (did not find a pic of the exact gun)
    This is meant to withstand any force generated by the ammunition. Even if the gun is loaded with an HE round and a grenade would detonate (which I am not sure it can) that round the base piece will block that. The maximum that can happen it that this would destroy the gun barrel.
    There are some pictures from WW2 tanks where that happened and the HE round exploded in the barrel. You see warped and sometimes splintered gun barrels.

    Also a grenade cannot roll into the crew compartment of the tank. Now I do not exactly remember the breechblock of the L7 gun. But even if there was no additional closing mechanism (Slider/Snapper) when unloaded and the chamber was not sealed a grenade would explode in the Breechblock and not roll into the inside. The fragment and explosion would not be directed at the munitions stored in the upper back and side part of the turret. Also larger caliber tank shells (105/120mm) have a solid steel case that can take quite the beating as the loader rams it into the gun with strong force. There are a number of safety mechanism so a shell can't explode accidentaly. So if no force was targeted directly at the fuse and the shell not completely destroyed which ricochet grenade fragments from that distance won't do theres no way that shell in the ammunitions store would explode.

    My point is there is no way of killing an experienced tank crew with such simple means. A tank is designed to keep stuff on the outside. Now you can argue the Governors men were just stupid of course that can be true but even then I think that scene is a work of fiction. Which is OK to do by the way.

    Anyway I got carried away. I have to watch that scene again but I am pretty sure that was wrong.

    But I liked the episode. You are welcome to discuss further. Especially if you got more details on the inside of the M60 and the Breechblock on that gun variant.[/QUOTE]
     
  16. Bassman

    Bassman Administrator
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    Just one of those things that happen in movies/shows like the missing requirement to reload weapons or the excessive shifting of gears while driving.

    If you want to talk about tank inaccuracies, they've been in the show since the first episode. The tank rick crawls into doesn't actually have a bottom hatch. Movie magic...
     
  17. highway234

    highway234 Member

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    I don't think mitch was alone in the tank since someone said "grenade" when the grenade rolled down the barrel. This would be a very odd thing to do if you were in the tank alone.
     
  18. Tha Crusha

    Tha Crusha New Member

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    I smell a Mythbusters episode...
     
  19. legendx66

    legendx66 Moderator
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    There was another guy in the tank in the beginning. Most likely totally unexperienced though. I just figured the grenade got him or we didn't see him.
     
  20. Johnnie Walker

    Johnnie Walker Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how a tank can be killed and I don't care. The scene was cool, that's the only thang I care.
     

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