For anyone saying Carl did right by dropping "Toby"...guess that would mean Hershel is a LIER...seeing as Herschel told Rick Carl killed him in cold blood!

Get real folks...Toby was running AWAY from the Gov. and his men...and running SCARED...he was NO THREAT regardless of how he apparently was trying to drop his shot-gun!

 

First, yeah, Herschel is a liar. As others have said, surrendering is dropping your weapon. Hanging onto it and creeping forward to get into hand-to-hand range is not surrendering.

LOL, he was TRYING to drop his shotgun?!? BWAHAHAHA!!! Was it glued to his hand? No, with two guns pointed at his head he held onto his gun and kept coming forward. If he'd managed to get close enough to grab Carl as a human shield, gun down Herschel, stomp the baby and drag Beth into the bushes for some alone time, people would be up in arms about how Carl was an idiot for not killing him when he obviously wasn't surrendering.

All that said, I've been saying since the beginning that Carl's mind snapped when Rick killed his dad and he was headed into serial killer land. Now that he's finally killed a human (a human who didn't talk Rick into killing his dad), how long before he's got a naked Beth handcuffed to a piece of furniture?

It's time to face facts. The Carltatorship is upon us. Now that he can basically tell Rick to shut up and fix him a sandwich and Rick'll just wander off meekly looking hurt, isn't he the leader? People have been defending Rick's status as a natural leader since the series began. When the Alpha male rolls over and gives his throat to the young up-and-comer, it's pretty clear that there's a new sheriff in town.

 

Carl is now a teenager --only one who is trained to kill. All teenagers think their parents are full of it and blame them for everything, get mad at them, backtalk them, disrespect them and of course all young teens think they know everything and their parents are stupid. Carl wanted to be part of saving the Prison, but Rick banished him to the bushes with the baby!(and the baby's nanny and one-legged old granpa type). Rick treated his son like a Baby -- he disrespected him after all his son has done. Backtalk or no, some of what Carl said to his Dad had the ring of truth. Carl is not that far off the mark in disrespecting his father's poor leadership. Hershel has gone along with every stupid decision Rick has made, so he's no help in providing guidance to Carl. Same with Darryl. Maybe Tyrese can help Carl see what a real man is and help him grow into it.

 

I understand why Carl did it and I do not blame him for learning the "do or die" rule of this world.
I really think, he thought it was necessary to shoot the kid, maybe it was even, I don't know...
Nevertheless, I also believe Hershel analysed the situation quite well himself and is right about worrying over Carl's cold blooded behaviour recently.

Maybe the boy is not to blame for shooting in that particular event, but he really has to be watched because of his attitude.
Carl didn't even feel the slightest remorse (as far as we could observe that is) and I think that it's important to question your own choices sometimes, to feel sorry for taking a human life. Even in times like this you can't teach a child to shoot someone and let him believe it was no big deal just because the other one seemed to be a threat. I don't mean he has to hesitate too long, I don't mean he has to wait until someone gets hurt, but in my opinion, Carl needs to learn that he killed. And killing is never "not a big deal", not now, never.
If Rick misses out on lecturing him about this, I fear for Carl's future.
He should be prepared, he should be protective and he should be ready to shoot when necessary.
He should not grow up to be a murderer...He could become a threat if his way of thinking doesn't change...

 

I don't think the kid was a threat but I believe Carl did. On the other hand he needs to learn the difference between self defense and cold blooded murder which is what happened there. For those of you who are advocating shoot first and then shoot again, **** the questions, all I can say is you'd fit right in with the Gov's little henchmen.

 

This is what I was trying to say exactly.

 

There was no questions to be asked, he said drop the gun and go not come slowly towards me trying to get me to lower my guard. Carl did the right thing.

 

But how do you reply to Carl's comment: I didn't kill the walker, who then killed Dale; you didn't kill Andrew, who (indirectly) killed Mom; you were in a room with the Guv and didn't kill him, and he killed Merle.

Do you explain that you only kill to protect? (What Carl feels like he did.) Or that it's wrong (which is kinda weird 'cause the living get killed by Rick & co. too)? That it depens on the circumstance?; how do you explain this to a 12-13-14 year old, without screwing up?

Kids (and teens) tend to see things black-and-white; the gray areas usually come when older and when they have more experience in life.

 

I want to start this with saying I personally love Carl. I love him in the comics, I love him in the tv show probably my favorite character. He's my favorite because he really shows how much the world has changed by growing up and adapting to live in it.


In season one he wandered off and did what he wanted because Lori was too busy trying to figure out which man she wanted to be with. Then in season two and three she was more worried about the baby while Rick was trying to hard to keep everyone safe and didn't take time to be a better father.


But all that time Carl learned by observation, watching everyone Rick, Lori, Shane even Dale, and T-Dog. He was forced to see his best friend die and then the only other person his age was killed. He felt responsible for Dale's death and doesn't want to have that happen again.


I think in season four you'll see more Michonne/Carl moments and hopefully more Rick/Carl moments. He has a lot to learn, but so far with the hand he has been dealt I think he is doing pretty good, admittedly he can be annoying.


The reasoning he gave behind killing the boy in the woods makes sense. The fact that he is reasoning at all shows he isn't like the Governor. Remorse about Dale shows he has a warmer heart than Shane.


I think there is a ton of potential in his character and if Rick does his job as a father with help from Michonne, and maybe Tyreese and Daryl he could be an even better character down the line.

 

I don't think that will happen, I think they replaced it with the woods scene unfortunately. But I also feel like there will be other morally questionable things that Carl does next season absolutely. I'm really looking forward to seeing more of his development.

 

It is obviously writers are setting some kind conflict, now Rick supposedly regain his "humanity", I believe that means he went back that "officer friendly" in the season one, but in order to make the show interesting, Carl will go to a more or less darker place, takes the role of Shane in the season 2, I am not saying Carl will try to kill Rick, but he will always oppose Rick's decision, the ensured conflict between father and son will be quite dramatic, and help raising the TV rating

 

Amen to this post!

 

I really don't want to see him go bad. It was Lori's last hope that her son stay a good person. It's hard to watch a child go to the darkside. He gave his father's badge back, but he still wears the hat. I know that doesn't mean anything. I just want to hold out some hope for him. I hate to think with all Rick has lost, that Carl would be another.

 

I believe this was the first time carl ever shot someone as I believe he didnt shoot lori. I think he locked her in another cell block before she turned, to see her whenever he wants.

 

Indeed. Toby saw a weak group and was going to take his chance to come back to Woodbury a hero. Hershel is still too embedded in the old ways - he sees a kid. Carl, who is even younger than Toby was, knows that just because someone is a kid, doesn't mean they're not a killer.

Good point. He saw them both as a threat and as potential allies and treated them as such. He could be sure that Toby was not a potential ally.