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Charlie

Discussion in 'Episode 403 - Good Out Here' started by Lindigo, Apr 30, 2018.

  1. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    I feel so sad for Charlie. She has to be completely broken hearted to have thought that was the right thing to do.

    I'm expecting our group to forgive and embrace this broken child of the apocalypse.

    Morgan was right. Vengeance didn't turn out the way Nick thought it would.
     
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  2. Marc

    Marc Well-Known Member

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    Vengeance didn't work out because of plot device in my opinion. He KNEW she was always hanging around that weirdo freak.

    Im really frustrated at this. Nick was one of the more interesting characters on FTWD. I think Madison and Alicia are big screw ups but they survive everything and they got some high talent when needed. If they kill Luci and Strand too...ergh, Cause we already lost the whole Indian and prepper crew, we lost Travis, probably Salazar too! But also Madison is a maybe on lost characters.

    But im bit wacko when it comes to vengeance : - ) If I was a TWD character I would toss all the Vultures, 1 by 1 into that zombie oil tank Madison and the Nurse ended up in as a punishment. Including Charlie. She helps the, she knows better. She shot Nick, she is a enemy! This is the post apoclaypse, our society rules do not mean anything no longer. A worthy punishment of the vilest scum I seen on the TWD, up there with Gareths cannibals and Joes gang.
     
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  3. Sully

    Sully Active Member

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    In Charlie's defense Nick DID just beat down one of her close group members with a hammer.

    The interesting thing about the Vultures was that they really seemed so non violent. Like that guy turned his back on Nick and just walked away when Nick clearly was going after him. When Morgan walked up he wasn't violent with him at all he just told him to keep walking.

    So for Charlie to have a gun and use it was really a surprise. Why did the kid have a gun but the adult didn't?'
     
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  4. NakedCity

    NakedCity Well-Known Member

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    Turn the story around and we'd all be cheering for Charlie for killing the dude who just killed his mentor and savior on a run where he showed no opposition. :D

    Can't blame the kid!
     
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  5. Marc

    Marc Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure I would be cheering for an asshole gang that lives like parasites on other societies and kills them slowly. Hell even Negan vassalize and make people work together with his community. These are simply scrounging and scavenging assholes with a fast car. Charlie scouting just means they cannot handle to big groups! They even had to ruin the crops here to be able to screw the Arena group up. That alone should trigger the armour, get the guns and in the night just kill em all.
     
  6. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    Your current self might not, but you might if you were 10 years old though. Charlie is still a victim who has been manipulated by bad adults. Many abusive parents and other adults manipulate children into believing things, and behaving in ways that are destructive. Pedophiles make 10 year olds believe its their own fault while they serially rape them. The younger of the Turpin children are getting months of therapy to help them understand that the way their parents made them live was wrong, and that they deserve a normal life.

    Having said that, in order for Charlie to ever be accepted into the fold, she would need to be shown the error of her ways, and firmly.
     
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  7. Marc

    Marc Well-Known Member

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    Last time I checked, Carol had to take out Lizzie when sje went apeshit. Just saying, this is the post apocalypse, not time for raising kids in a freaking Swat truck. In the sick world of the post apocalypse, clearly even a kid under 18 can be a force able to ruin your whole community. There is no time to know how she thinks or not. Some kids are pretty damn clever to and understand more than we think. Best thing in this scenario is to just shoot her to while at it so she do not get any ideas of vengeance if they take out the Vultures. Cold but such is the bitter truth of the post apoc life. She is not a 10 year old anylonger in the perspective of a modern society, but just a 10 year old human. I am not even sure any one can be seen as a child in that world, considering everyone need to pull their weight and cannot be cuddled.I am sure she understand right from wrong, she is 10 years old, not mentally challenged.

    But hey, you and me just love to sit on the opposite sides of an arguement :)
     
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  8. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    No, I just love to sit where the logic is. The cushions are comfy, and there's Netflix. ;). Lizzie had a psychosis that came from within [apeshit, as you yourself put it], while this girl is a victim manipulated by a bad group of adults that controlled her. Lizzie wasn't going to change. This girl is malleable and can be shown new ways. Likely pretty easily. She still has the mind of a 10 year old, whether its a ZA or not. And she still would be manipulated the same way a 10 year old would be now, or in 1985, or in 1945. The world changed, but the fact that children can still be abused and manipulated didn't. Last time I checked. ;)
     
    #8 Neuropyramidal, Apr 30, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
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  9. Marc

    Marc Well-Known Member

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    In all fairness, I would not want a kid who shot Nick, along in that swat van. They do not know her well enough and she was cold enough to lie or twist a truth to get inside, sneaking around in their army and screwed over their plants. She is not innocent, is just some "manipulated" child who did a little bad. She is probably the core reason why the Arena community will fall and she and her group has to pay for that. There is no time in the Zombie Post Apocalypze to give little kiddos treatment.

    Humans of any age can be manipulated, but no one here is saying Gareth or The Governor need some time to "get better" ;) Thats only for Negan!
     
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  10. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    She is a manipulated child. You might not like seeing it that way, but she is. The same way Carl, at age 10 would have followed Rick's orders to go spy on another group [assuming he was brave enough]. And he would have done it without any understanding of who was the bad or good group. He would have done it because Rick told him to do it, so that made it the right thing. And Carl shot Jody, who was putting his gun down. Charlie shot a man who had just killed her adult father figure. And so it goes. I'm assuming you are starting to understand the difference between these other scenarios and Lizzie by now.

    Your equation of Charlie with the Governor once again outlines your misunderstanding of the situation here. The Governor was the manipulator of victims. Charlie is the victim. A more thoughtful comparison would have been Charlie against Tara. And if I remember correctly, she was accepted into the fold and became productive.
     
    #10 Neuropyramidal, Apr 30, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2018
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  11. Marc

    Marc Well-Known Member

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    I know what you mean, Charlie seems to be a less annoying kid character than most on TWD too.

    But, she done much more harm than Tara ever did for example. Would you not agree? Tara killed no one, lay down her gun and was a useless villian.

    And what I meant with Governor, Negan and such is that they too can be "taken by the moment" and can be shown better. Morgans talk is all about that, they can come back.
     
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  12. lastcat3

    lastcat3 Well-Known Member

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    The Charlie and Lizzie situations are like apples to oranges. Lizzie was so psychologically messed up that she killed her own sister to try to show that the Walkers weren't bad.

    Charlie on the other hand probably just realized Nick had killed one of the people in her group and was getting revenge for it.

    Still shows she has clear issues but not anywhere near what Lizzie had.
     
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  13. lastcat3

    lastcat3 Well-Known Member

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    And Tara .and Charlie are actually pretty similar. No Tara didn't kill anyone but she was completely in on the attack and probably would have killed at a particular time had she had an opportunity to do so.
     
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  14. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Tara was manipulated by someone else to the point that she rode up to the gate of another group with a gun ready to kill them all if needed. She never pulled the trigger because of happenstance, but she went with the plan right up until its execution, and was ready to pull the trigger if the Hershel thing and ensuing chaos hadn't occurred. She was easily converted to reality afterward. She wasn't a Lizzie, nor is Charlie. She was victim, like Charlie, who can be a useful person once her abusers are eliminated.
     
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  15. Camilleyun

    Camilleyun Well-Known Member

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    The only thing more shocking than Nick being shot was who pulled the trigger! Poor Nick, when he realized it was her, even worse when we saw it from his point of view!

    We know so little about Charlie. Was it revenge? Maybe she thought Nick would kill her too? It's hard to tell what goes though a 10 year old child's mind.
     
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  16. Chr1s

    Chr1s Well-Known Member

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    I think they are going to take a page out of the main show and ask the same question twd asks all the time. Can you come back from this?

    She will be the focal point of someone who was transformed by their world and wondering how far is too far. She seemed remorseful. So I wonder how that will play out, but I don't see her dying any time soon.

    Unless Carol crosses over, then she's ****ed.
     
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  17. Marc

    Marc Well-Known Member

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    I still think Charlie along with all Vultures get to take a brawling bath in a zombie filled oil tank. One by one. Leader goes last so he can meet all his own people as the undead.
     
  18. Rapscallion

    Rapscallion Well-Known Member

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    I didn't watch this episode, but I saw the clip of Nick's murder on Youtube.

    I hate that Nick's gone; I watched most of the S3 marathon (the best so far for FTWD) and Nick continued his struggles with drugs, but in the S4 premiere, seemed to have gotten it under control and was a valued member of his community.

    Its horrible that Nick was killed by Charlie, a little girl he considered a friend, but I like the sense of reality to it.

    In an apocalypse situation, children—especially groups of children—would be dangerous. They have a strong sense of invulnerability, little sense of empathy and compassion, and they quickly fall into a pack mentality.

    We've only seen a few dangerous kids in TWD Universe: Lizzie likely had mental problems before the Turn. Ron Anderson was as violent as his father. Carl Grimes himself went back and forth with "Kill them all" to "Give peace a chance".

    So while I'm saddened to see Nick go, the fact that he was killed by a child was realistic.
     
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  19. FCBfreak85

    FCBfreak85 New Member

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    Cant believe that Nick was really killed by such a lame character... I hope Alicia will find her soon....
     
  20. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    I don't think anyone is going to hurt her. Her age and her motivation are both in her favor.
     
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