The more I think about this and read posts by JeannieDD, BethG., and Kingston, the more irate I get. I don't have to like a writer's decisions, but if I think they're lazy or just manipulative I will become--to quote Willow Rosenburg--very cranky. Beth's Scissors of Mild Wounding act was too tame to hurt Dawn, but too extreme not to draw a reaction. (Like JeannieDD, though, I don't believe Dawn meant to kill Beth and frankly I don't see how she could.) Beth wasn't going to save Noah by doing what she did. Better to let Rick--whose negotiation skills had been pretty good for someone who had just plowed over a cop--talk to Dawn as one leader to another: the difficult decisions; the fear that an act of mercy will be seen as weakness. Then appeal to the other cops to persuade Dawn that she won't lose face in their eyes. Everybody walks out alive. (Well, Carol is wheeled out, having had the world's fastest response to epinephrine.) I liked Beth: not my favorite character, but I certainly liked her. But this death felt contrived: "We must have someone BIG die in MSF. Let's see..."

When Michonne told Maggie that Beth was alive, I could have muted my TV and pretended that Maggie turned to Glenn and exclaimed, "Oh my God--I have a sister! Daddy told me we were separated at birth!"

And if you're going for emotional manipulation, don't end the episode by cutting the intensity to watch Morgan wander into the church, light a votive candle, look at a map...A fine scene under other circumstances, but not this one.

Grr...

 

i agree with almost everything u said except this part. Rick had no way of knowing what Beth was going to do or what relationship beth and Dawn had built. But everything else you said is really spot on. They forced her death.

 

OMG you play CKII?

Marry me!

 

Hubris: Does Kirkman have 'Lost' disease?

Even Conan Doyle was forced to revive Holmes, when empassioned fans clamored for some consolation after the famous detective had bored the author and threatened to eclipse his fame. This far into the series, we get it - you have shown how no character is guaranteed a miracle save, which has made the nail-biting episodes always up for grabs. But, when so much time was spent in building up a previously background figure, allowing that one to change, grow and become stronger, there is even in this nihilist show a sense of worth of salvation, whether by rescue or her own redemptive powers. Beth earned it.
And for the first time I seriously disagree, and am disappointed, by I presume Kirkman's choice.
There have been several other people I've grieved over losing, but I felt an "of course" sentiment soon after, not necessarily because they deserved it but in hindsight the loss seems logically consequential, inexorable, given the circumstances.
Here, for the first time, we see the arbitrary dice-roll (or did Beth/Emily hold out for too much money?) in a contrived, illogical, superfluous confrontation where Beth could just have easily saved herself with a "you did say you owed me" reminder.
Random "close calls" are tossed in way too often now, such as the 'biters so close to Daryl's face, scores of close-quarters combat where no one even seems concerned to check for teethmarks afterwards? Everyone seems to be surviving, for no good reason, and you just gave Beth a whole series of reasons just to shoot her in the head.
Herschel's loss was to date perhaps the greatest soul-gouging incident, but the gravitas developed, meshed perfectly with the magnitude of atrocity only a character as magnificently evil as the Governor could have accomplished. And it shook the world, in and around all the parties present.
Contrast with this, I believe pointless incidental display of over-reaching cynicism, the "see, I can do what I want" moment that is to serial dramas what the "shark jump" was to sitcoms. Sure, I could have kept Beth, but I feel like I wanna kill off another person just because I know you now care about them. I'll even tweak you beforehand with a preview trailer with Daryl carrying out a covered Beth-sized body to burn, clearly messing with our sympathies, later revealing it's just another generic zombie. And, even though I know full well in this world of MY CREATION, a person might just have been allowed to vanish, forever, without closure, an even more realistic and gut-wrenching exit perhaps to some, I'm just going to thumb my nose at your beloved little fanbases. Then, for my finale, here's Daryl, again, this time really carrying Beth exactly the way he carried the body in the trick teaser. Gotcha, gullible audience.
An injustice has been done - arguably the first serious lapse in the entire series to date.
The creators of "Lost" suffered from this sort of hubris, albeit in massive overdoses. I hope that Kirkman may still be treatable.

Advice for Kirkman, and other show runners:
Stop playing fast and loose with plot inconsistencies - just because an earlier episode dealt with some obvious question does not mean the problem isn't universal, permanent, ongoing. How does a chronically starving crew, short on ammunition, suddenly jump into frenzied street-fighting junkets, or abandon walkie-talkies that might have kept them all together during repeated crises, etc. Yeah, we showed weak Rick for a while, now he's over that (vitamins, meditation?)
Respect for your creation, and for its legions of fans, does not force you to regurgitate obsequious cliches - but neither should it feed an arrogant attitude that mistakes arbitrary postmodern subversions for "creative vision."
Mythology and folk tales endure, not by turning the endings inside out, but by recognizing the lessons on morals, human frailties, and such that these reveal.
You are not better than your audience. Use your skills to create the context where fan favorites may survive, naturally, with neither a deus ex machina to extricate them, nor an arbitrary exit just to demonstrate your omniscience (making you the deus ex machina).
Perhaps constraining yourself a bit may delineate more clearly the way the evolution of the series might go; playing with the instincts of your audience is a dead end. No pun intended.

 

It's always been my opinion that it's amazing the number of sitcom pilots that are made each year and the number that get get picked up. Bad writing and stories seems to be them norm. Who is supposed to keep the writers in check? The show runner? Maybe it's that the show runner is leading this show in the wrong direction. Maybe the writers are writing exactly what the show runner is asking for? Wish gimple was replaced. Show went down when he took over. IMHO. It's the only explanation I can come up with. I could see gimple on talking dead talking about how awesome Beth's death was and the last 3 eps were. He's out of touch.

 

This was not bad writing. It was different, but if you oh back and look at the episode, it was set up to be an inevitable bonding of Dawn and Beth. Not quite Thelma and Louise, but we see Dawn helping Beth help Carol, and we see Beth being Dawn's number one helper (ward). They certainly both when they throw the bad cop down the shaft. It's perhaps a bond by necessity and not by choice, but it is a bond nonetheless. Dysfunctional, certainly, but then so are many relationships. It makes total sense that they die together, and Beth could haven prevented it by not going back to twist the knife in, so to speak. Teenagers can be impetuous. Even 29 year old ones.

Nope, this was Dawn's story just as much as it was Beth's, and they killed her off just as she was starting to get interesting.

 

CK2 is the king of Grand strategy! I marry you as a friend!

 

Surely you wouldn't mind obtaining the homosexual trait and giving me a good tumble? It's good to be the king! I'm just a lowly count.

 

Sadly not for now! ;_; I got crusaders to go on and crazy Bogolomist uprising to lead!

I want a Walking Dead game like Crusader Kings. All about the social interaction!

 

Well now you've gone and made me mad. Did you forget I was an elusive shadow with godly intrigue? I will murder all your heirs and start a faction to lower crown authority. Good luck on your crusade while I'm causing hell!

Dude, the new expansion. I'm gonna insta buy dat shiz.

 

I find myself watching the masterpiece of season 1 every now and again only wondering what could have been. This show has just been a train wreck with some stand out moments here and there since season 2, it's just a shell of it's former self at this point.

I never read the comics until just before this season which has pretty much ruined the show for me. Seeing what they have done to these characters, the direction they have gone, the horrid writing and acting, the predictability, the B horror movie gags, it's just appalling to me at this point.

Andrew Lincoln is the only thing that really keeps me watching and the tease of Lennie James which I'm sure they'll exploit and drag out to the nth degree. I really miss having some competent actors like Berenthal, DeMunn, Rooker and Wilson.

 

double post, whoops

 

Hey folks.. first post on these here boards, so my apologies for the negatively...

Like all of us on here im a huge WD fan, we understand that our beloved characters have to die and sometimes out of the blue, its what makes the show so nail biting...

While this season started off very good, after the cannibals story (which was way to short imo) this season has dropped way bellow the shows usual standards, or should I say the writing has.... the actors have done a great job with a shoddy script...

Im was no beth shipper or fan, I didnt dislike her character but she wasnt a main player for me personally but for the love of all that's holy she deserved a bet end than that, it was saddening to watch this episode, the whole story arc after the cannibals just felt..... weak... rushed and a considerable lack of thought...

Untill I did a bit of homework I was convinced Emily had requested to be killed off asap, because that's how all this felt, it felt like they had to re write the end of the first half of the season, it was so bad, the whole cops and docs storyline made little sence and dragged on for an eternity only to cater to beths "shocking" death....

What I find even more sad is that they had the actor in dawn to really make the hospital situation great but jnstead it was poorly executed with what seems little thought... very disappointing.....

Im still in the dark as to what and who dawn was meant to be!, im glad a good % of fans had the same reareaction as me when beth said "I get it now" because I sure as hell didnt... and im sorry but if such a high % of your fans/viewers have this reaction then that IS bad storytelling.... end of story! It made no sense what so ever...

Then we find out the cast was screwed on being notified of beths death, Emily wss treated so poorly imo, somthing must have happened to the storyline... it must have.. this death just has all the hall marks of rush job.. very sad.. and I really feel for Emily in all of this, yes we know cast members must go, we all know this, the cast more than anyone, but this was just plain wrong imo...

The death scene has been pulled to bits already so I womt bore you all with the same points but yea..... again it made nooooo sence....

If they were looking for the shock element, boy the nailed it... I was completely shocked...


I just hope that now this abomination is done and behind us that we can pick up again, and for whatever reason this happened it was worth it going into S5B...

 

Gooood damnit this again! Just don't send Rick Grimes please! ;_;

Oh yeah, that do sound promising!

 

Complaint.

I've enjoyed the series thoroughly up until the last couple episodes. Seems like writers are out of material. Coda was extra disappointing. Not that I care a member of the group died.. Just a waste of episode, to build up to that point. Seems like a dog chasing it's tale now. (Same situations over and over.) What took an hour to watch could've been a side story lasting no more than >15min. BOO

P.S. Btw, how could someone manage to draw/shoot a holstered gun within a millisecond of being stabbed? I know, it's t.v., just thought we were a little more advanced.

 

Release date is Dec 16.

 

Great :zombies_alien:

 

Release date of what?

 

Lol just read our posts my dear.....but it's not something you've probably ever heard of.

It's a downloaded content for a video game we play.

 

Ahhhhh, gotcha! I was being lazy and didn't feel like going back to re-read a bunch of posts. Enjoy your games!