I agree. And as I thought hard about those comparisons... the only ruthless things I could recall TV Rick doing were:

1.) leave Merle behind locked up
2.) shoot the men at the bar
3.) condone torturing Randal

None compare to the sacrifice that Carol has made

 

Killing that prisoner guy with the machete chop to the head. That was a grey area IMO. Not killing the other prisoner, Andrew, led to Lori and T-dog's deaths. In this case he failed to be ruthless and people were killed as a result Even considering turning Michonne over to that fate was ruthless. That's off hand in addition to what you wrote. Rick has blood on his hands and made tough decisions. Sometimes they worked out sometimes they didn't.

 

I knew I forgot an important one... thank you. I had thought of it earlier... in fact that it the most standout 'ruthless' things he has done in my opinion

 

Without mentionning the one he killed (or left for dead) in the bathroom... Nobody can say this man was a bad guy since we know nothing about him, he could as well been hanging with the marauders the way daryl did, just to stay alive (and maybe he was isolating in the bathroom just because he didnt feel comfortable with the other guys)

 

Beyond that Rick made some dubious decisions, like not aiding the desperate hiker in the episode 'clear' than taking his backpack off his corpse. I found that to be so messed up...

 

Oooh yes that! IMO one of the most coldhearted acts in the entire series. Then having Carl pick up the guys backpack after he was dead? If Carl turns psycho Rick has nobody to blame but himself lol.

 

I agree. He'd kill her gangland style.

 

Yeah, that's kind of a monster. Shane was wounded, and rather than letting his partner take the supplies back and toughing his way back he sacrificed his uninjured partner to save himself. Not a guy you'd want next to you, IMO.

I guess you don't want to be around Shane if he's wounded, and don't want to be around Carol if you are.

 

At the risk of oversimplifying, the difference IMO is that I saw Shane as somebody who completely lost touch with reality, while Carol is still very sane. In some ways that makes Carol much more dangerous. Because for the most part she's a person who you would want by your side during a ZA. Whereas Shane was always more about what benefited Shane. Carol still views things from a perspective of what's best for her group. But she's reached the point where she views killing human beings as an acceptable and convenient way to deal with challenges. And at some point in a ZA it might become more convenient for her to kill you than help you.

The upside for Carol is that her story line is incomplete. It's very possible the trauma from losing/killing her surrogate daughters is an epiphany that moves her character in a different direction.

 

Keep in mind guys that Carol made the decision with Tyreese. She didn't go at this alone. And if one of the most moral people on the shows went with killing Lizzie, it gives credence.

 

At that point I felt they had very few options. IMO the failing was allowing the situation to get that far.

 

It seems to me that Carol is alot more like Merle in S3 E15 than Shane.
Shane spent alot of time going straight up to the group, telling them they were wrong and making choices for them while not accepting responsibility.
Carol makes the decisions for the group but also believes she deserves the consequences that follow and weighs it up before deciding
Merle makes decisions for Merle but if a large enough portion of the group says no then he doesnt eg E13 when Glenn Michonne Beth and Herschel *sniffle* convinced him to stay rather than shoot the governor.

In this both Carol and Merle feel/felt beholden to the group while Shane felt like the group owed him.

As a side note and I should probably find another thread to say this, why didn't Carol and Tyreese just abandon Lizzie?

 

Shane wouldn't be in that situation if Otis had not (accidently) shot Carl before...

 

I think the similarities between Carol and Shane are the extreme actions.
That barn problem with all the zombies needed to be opened, Shane solved many problems that needed to be solved, but Rick didn't have the stones to do it himself.
Carol was still making these actions not so much to protect the group but the majority was involved with Sofia, I think she killed Karen and David to protect Lizzie and Mika because she saw them as her children and she taught them how to use knives to prevent dying like Sofia, running away because she was scared. I think a lot Carols actions were saw as protecting but I think she is mentally unstable and she killed people to protect two little girls, one who ran away from everything(Like Sofia) and the other who was insane. My conclusion is that Shane protected his love and Carol protected a child she saw as her new children, who she had to protect.

 

Carol is a sick person who will eventually kill herself once she realizes that A. people did actually survive the flu. B. she murdered a little girl. It will hit her all at once, like a ton of bricks...

 

To be fair, I think Shane's ruthless actions were for personal gain only during the 2nd half of season 2. He was changing for the worst. If you re watch, I think you'll see a guy who does care especially in Season 1. I honestly think if Rick just killed the guy they kidnapped Shane wouldn't have snapped, I think along with the selfishness there was a guy who thought Rick's behaviors were going to get the
whole group killed. That's why I liked his character, he was both good and evil.

I don't think shooting Lizzie was similar to shane, but killing Karen and David was VERY much shane from season 1 and beginnings of season 2.

 

Nope. Shane's actions and Otis' shooting Carl had nothing to do with one another. You could also blame Rick and Lori for conceiving Carl in the first place thus eventually putting Shane in this predicament. Shane *decided* to shoot Otis.

 

so what ? did i say he didnt decide to Shoot Otis ? I just meant that Shane's selfish choice is more acceptable for the audience since Otis is involved in Carl's shooting. Furthermore, Otis was a redshirt, he would have died alone in mission without shane and i cannot imagine shane's character giving up and sacrifice himself. Ok it's amoral but it's a show (and shane was punished later); who knows maybe you would do worse things to survive in a ZA ?

 

I think a better comparasin is rick and carol since both have done ruthless things, loved ricks neck bite