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Coronavirus

Discussion in 'Debaters' started by surviving, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. Biffster

    Biffster Well-Known Member

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    Remember, he did work for the Trump administration though, an organization not well-known for their truthfulness.
     
  2. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Also trump was a notorious China basher who made crap up. So it was hard to take him seriously. If Redfield is right, i still don’t think that it was released intentionally to make him look bad as the trump administration suggested. That labs job is to track, sample and study viruses. If it had and was studying covid, that was its job. Redfield also admitted that HE has the virus and is “Trying to make it grow better and better and better and better”. Thats a lot of betters. We can surmise that what he is doing is neither illegal nor nefarious, so if China was studying it, neither would their work. Where they screwed the pooch, is in hiding the fact that they had a highly infectious disease on the loose. Regardless of how it initiated. This is the first time a highly respected expert in this field with firsthand knowledge has pushed the lab theory. He is also the first to give actual scientific theory to back it. His opinion is that the human to human transmission is too efficient to occur naturally. However. He doesn’t say whether he is taking into account the nearly one year that it spread in China unchecked before going public. It was in the US almost 5 months before trump admitted it. California had undiagnosed cases in October 2019.


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  3. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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    Please note he did not make these statements while Trump was in office nor while he was head of CDC. I doubt he even confided in Trump that these were his thoughts. Trump and him were quite often at odds.
     
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  4. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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    It spread in China basically a month unchecked. If it had been spreading for a year their numbers would have been way worse.
    Once SARS-COV2 reaches a region it takes 2 months for it to explode into an epidemic.
    Also Redfield was talking hypothetical when he said he has a coronavirus not that he actually has one.
     
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  5. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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    WHO report says animals likely source of COVID...

    https://apnews.com/article/who-repo...-coronavirus-8a839c179c330c56fa46a763b7286a7f

    Gain of function experiments speed up evolution of viruses using animals as incubators. A virus derived from a gain of function experiment would appear natural. So it is possible the virus did come from an animal and escaped a lab.
    Once again WHO is basing their reports on what the Chinese says.
    I also find it ironic the Biden administration is coming to the same conclusions as the Trump administration did.
     
    #3425 surviving, Mar 29, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2021
  6. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Here’s an article that purports covid antibodies were detected on the west coast in December, in Italy in October and in China much earlier than reported by China. I don’t know where i read about the earliest cases but it we had some outbreaks in California that they were attributing to covid. They may have since changed their stance. Was Redfield being hypothetical? I can read it both ways. That he came to his conclusion based on the work he was doing. Otherwise how would he know that THEY were making it “better and better and better and better”? That would just make his statements speculation.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-circulated-europe-china-before-wuhan-outbreak-2020-12


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  7. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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    The article you reference reads like Chinese propaganda. One study states this another states that with no reference to the actual study. Really poor journalism or Chinese propaganda. I'm betting on the latter.
    As far as Redfield statements he is speaking of gain of function experiments. They speed up evolution of virus hence better and better transmission.
    Also the head of one the labs in Wuhan did research work at Duke university involving coronavirus. Once he published his research, the US government pulled funding due to the fact that if the virus ever escaped the lab no one would know the outcome. It was deemed too dangerous to continue. I find it ironic that a deadly coronavirus broke out near the the lab he heads
     
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  8. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    Why would Chinese propaganda state that they were lying about their own statements? It is saying The evidence shows it spreading to other countries earlier that China acknowledges its own cases. I understand Redfield understands HOW gain of function is used. My question is how does he know that China WAS doing it? I mistakenly thought he was saying he was using it as a normal process of studying its replication and how to combat it. But if he wasn’t doing so, how can he say they were doing so for certain? I was trying to give his opinion some credit but if he is just guessing with no real evidence, we are still on the same boat. Waiting for something concrete to surface. If he doesn’t have any real evidence, its kind of irresponsible to perpetuate the idea when anti-asian attacks are in the rise.


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  9. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    https://apple.news/A8AhArcflQ1y49MyVPn_7rQ
    The head of who is responding to criticism that the report may have been too heavily influenced by the Chinese government. He admits that they were denied access to raw data and not intentionally towing Chinese narratives. They believe all possibilities warrant further investigation and are not excluding the possibility that it escaped from a lab but find it very unlikely as the report already noted. So it looks like they are not in Chinas pocket but are being denied information like everyone else. 14 countries are banding together demanding a more comprehensive investigation but unless China cooperates or some whistle blower risks his life, we probably aren’t going to find out much more than this report is showing. We would need like a high level official to defect and bring some evidence as bargaining power.


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  10. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    If the real Truth is that it escaped (or was released) from a Chinese lab, than admitting to ANY other lie that shows they weren't responsible and liable for the consequences of the virus is an improvement. That seems obvious to me.
     
  11. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    The article shows that they were not being honest about the timeline. Infections were confirmed earlier than China is copping to. It cant confirm or deny weather it was cooked up or not.


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  12. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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    The article is meant to cast doubt on the coronavirus originating in China. To say the virus was circulating in Europe is implying the virus was imported to China. The is one of the narratives the Chinese government is pushing.
     
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  13. DeadZedHead

    DeadZedHead Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t read anything in there suggesting the legitimacy of that claim. I know China suggested that but no ones buying it. This was just casting doubt on The official timeline.


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  14. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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    Got my shot #2 today. So far so good. Although my shoulder is a little sore this time.
     
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  15. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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  16. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    I guess the Chinese couldn't steal our vaccines fast enough.

    LOL, it also shows how badly China is lying to the world on their infection data. As of now they report less than 5000 deaths since the epidemic began. If the rate was that low I doubt they'd be worried about how effective their vaccine was.

    "
    China's coronavirus vaccines may not provide the appropriate protection, with the government exploring options to try and boost efficacy as additional vaccines enter clinical trials.

    In a rare admission from a normally tight-lipped government, Chinese health officials admitted that the vaccines "don't have very high protective rates."

    "It's now under formal consideration whether we should use different vaccines from different technical lines for the immunization process," China Centers for Disease Control director Gao Fu said at a conference Saturday."

    https://www.foxnews.com/health/chinese-vaccine-effectiveness-not-high

    https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#global-counts-rates
     
    #3436 Morgotha, Apr 12, 2021 at 7:14 AM
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021 at 7:26 AM
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  17. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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    I wonder why they don't take the Pfiezer or Moderna vaccines and reverse engineer them. They steal American technology all the time.
     
  18. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Some scientists at Stanford reverse-engineered Moderna's vaccine and posted their work on the internet. The Chinese scientists don't even need to do any work, they just need an internet connection.

    It must be something about production or the potential transport hurdles that are slowing them down, it's certainly NOT concern for patent rights!
     
  19. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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  20. surviving

    surviving Well-Known Member

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    Maybe some type of technology. I'm sure they will eventually overcome obstacles.
    You can find instructions for building nuclear weapons on internet but the technology required to build it is difficult to aquire.
     

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