XOXO x infinity

 

Maybe we're too close to the situation. An outsider's perspective might help.

Say there is a little island with a little tribe of people and a tribe leader. Everyone is happy all the time. Occasionally fishing vessels will leave the island to go fishing and visiting other nearby islands.

One day the fishing boat captain sees another vessel out on the water. There is a small group of people on the other vessel, those people are hungry, and dirty, and have obviously been through a rough time. The captain invites them to his island.

The new group sees the tribe leader, and proceeds to tell him a story. "There is a war going on a few days' journey from here, and those people are out to destroy and take over any island they find. You need to put up guards and start getting your people ready."

Would a good tribe leader listen to the strange group, or disregard their warnings since there had never been war on his island?

The tribal leader may have been a fine leader before the new information came his way. What he does with the new information determines whether he's still being a good leader.

A leader's job is to know and understand what is going on inside and outside his community. All circumstances that may affect his people are his business. It's a leader's job to gather information from as many sources as possible to decide courses of action.

Deanna had a group of people that had "been out there", and were trying to give her information. She essentially put her fingers in her ears and started saying "lalala" instead of listening.

But, like most of our characters, we are seeing her start to change. After Reg died, she began allowing people to carry guns. She had more people on the walls, watching.

It will be interesting to see if she can come to terms with the "real" world, or if it breaks her.

I personally hope she can come through this, stronger than before, and can reclaim leadership, or at least something like the committee Rick had at the prison. Rick had a mental break after Lori died, we're probably seeing something similar with Deanna. (Course, we haven't seen her hallucinate, so +1 Deanna!)

Maybe the real answer, is Deanna is sometimes showing good leadership skills, and sometimes not. Depending on which days we're focusing on, two opposing answers may be equally accurate.

 

It's not a bad analogy. I'd change a couple things. The new leader comes in and tells them of the hell that they've been through, but that hell is over 600 miles away. As far as the current leader's scouts (Aaron & BF) and scavengers have seen, there's no danger in the immediate area for quite a long time now. Also, the new group has a priest who comes in and says these people are evil.

 

The only reason anyone can look at Alexandria's walls and security methods and say "uh, oh...that's not going to work...." is because you've been watching the show and seen the previous "Alexandria" where Noah returned to and discovered it was over run, everyone killed... you've seen the episodes with the hoards of walkers storming the prison fences...

Deanna hasn't had the luxury of tuning in every Sunday night to see what we've seen, what's been going on far outside her walls and their area to understand the threat beyond what they personally have experienced, which is since the ZA started, just random walkers appear at their large, stable, tall walls where they bounce off them a bit and the people of Alexandria can dispatch them at their leisure.

Good leaders take care of their people, Deanna's done a fine job of that, creating a community and a start at rebuilding society. Good leaders also are proactive about what if's, assessing the situation they exist in and look beyond it to extrapolate what could happen, what are the potential risks beyond our current situation, what are out needs today and what will they be a month from now.

When Deanna has demonstrated the ability to be proactive by seeking out both good people to join their society as well as survivor badasses like Rick and his group to add to the security the argument that Deanna is the worst leader ever simply has no merit.

 

Rick offered Deanna advice on security and letting people carry guns, and she refused. Her oldest son kept losing people during runs, and she never replaced him. Deanna also got jealous when she saw key people in Rick's group like Maggie and Abe were becoming popular with the townspeople.

Deanna's a good person, but being a politician in the apocalypse, with a entire town accepting whatever she said, made her arrogant.

 

First of all, no one said the walls didnt work. And to say it is because WE (collectively) have watched the show and that the CHARACTER Deanna hasn't is just plain silly. We all agree that the walls work to a point. The debate was whether or not it was Deanna who built them. It wasn't. It was her husband and sons (plus other members of the community).

Deanna did not need to "have the luxury of watching the show" to know the threat that was out there. People do not get evacuated and sent by the Military to another community for nothing. THAT alone would warrant having knowledge that there was an outside threat.

A good leader would know what the weak spots were in the community. And then take care of them. Deanna did not. As I have said previously, taking away all weapons, NOT having a lookout, sending out ill equipped and even more ill experienced people to dispatch of walkers or conduct runs were all decisions made with what she had to work with....which wasn't much. The only point I will agree with is that she had the insight to send out recruiters thus bringing Rick and company to the community.

Good leaders take care of their people? By how? Hiding outside in a truck while they are being slaughtered?

And yes, the arguement that Deanna is a bad leader (i did not say the worst - I give that claim to fame to Joe), has alot of merit. It also has the facts to back it up.

 

1. She doesn't have to physically help build the walls to get some credit. The vision, the organization, the delegation, etc. are all essential to the project.

2. I thought she assessed the situation fairly well. She's 60ish and can't fight. She pointed out that she would only be a liability, and she was right. The only thing she might have done differently is insist her son leave her and join the fight.

 

Rick's not exactly a verbally, cerebrally influential person, he typically comes to meetings with 50 cuts on his face, covered in blood, screams and shouts about "I thought I was going to have kill half of you to save the other half..." not really a great talker. LOL

It takes a little while to take in a Rick rant and digest it an understand behind all the crazy there is actually some merit to his thoughts.

 

After Rick was made constable, Deanna and Reg took him, Michonne, and Sasha on a tour of Alexandria. Rick made some suggestions on security, which she rejected. Sasha volunteered for sentry duty, and Deanna immediately said that she made the job assignments.

Deanna was a liberal Democrat, who thought walls=safety. She likely kept the guns instead of melting them down because they gave the townspeople the impression they could defend themselves if the need ever arose. Well, the need arose, and the woman trusted with the key to the armory was found hiding inside the closet.

 

I think, even if they were isolated since Day 1 of the Apocalypse, it is still not excusable as they know that bad people existed in even pre-AZ world. Unless they think that all criminals are dead now, then there is no point of having zero security.
Crighton Dallas Wilton crept into Eastman's house and killed back then. A Crighton Dallas Wilton could just as easy to sneak into ASZ over the unguarded wall and kill now. With the police gone, guard and security should be raised up.

 

Let's talk about Rick's great leadership... My plan is to lead all the walkers from the quarry away from Alexandria, don't worry about it I got it figured out... uh, sorry, I blew it, Alexandria meet the herd.

 

I think Spencer would have had a few things to say about this thread

 

What the specific disaster is isn't important. Your needs of food, water, shelter, safety, etc. are still the same. You still need those same things regardless of which of your above disasters occurs, and practically speaking, you must obtain them in the same way. An Eskimo wouldn't do the same survival measures as a Pacific Islander, but that's because of location, not disaster.

As far as zombies go, I'd propose to you that the arrival of zombies is no more dangerous than the world now - although that might not be the case for your specific country at this time. As an example, in Rwanda just 20 years ago the Hutus killed off about a million Tutsis - almost 3/4 of the Tutsi population. If you were a Tutsi, your options were run or fight to the death. How is that different from the ZA? No one is going to save you, that's for sure. Not just that, but the people trying to exterminate your race are as smart and better armed than you are, and more numerous. Frankly, a Tutsi would probably have been safer in the ZA.

So you might not see a f*cken resemblance between a massive natural disaster and the ZA, but I do.

 

I agree that Deanna should have thought more about defense, However, I'd again like to point out that the Governor had multiple people patrolling the walls of Woodbury with assault rifles 24/7, and it didn't stop Rick's people from getting in and killing his people. So even if Deanna DID have guards up (and she should have) the Wolves likely still would have gotten in and killed her citizens, they just would have done it in a different way, such as observing the place for a few days and coming in at night, in a secluded or less watched place, etc. If the Wolves thought they had to be careful when attacking, the situation might have even turned out worse for Alexandria.

 

Frankly, I could care less about Tutsi's unless they are a Tootsie Roll. (see what I did there?)
Secondly, you can propose all you want but there is a huge difference between any natural disaster and zombies. Natural disasters end, ie. earth stops quaking, rain stops falling, tidal wave subsides - you get the picture right? - Ya, Zombies don't stop until you kill them by blowing off their head!
And lastly? With the complete and utter bullshit you just spewed above, I have no doubt that you will see the resemblance between Hippo and an Ant.