For those that are saying that the third hostage would make a difference, do any of of you feel that Rick and Co. would be handling this any differently if they only had one as opposed to two? I don't. I think that they would be doing to exact same thing they are doing now even if it was just Beth and they hadn't managed to get Carol, too. The extra hostage gained nothing for them except for more of their attention needing to be focused and a proven to be dangerous adversary. What if it had been at guy that Sasha turned her back on? She would be dead.

Pall that I heard from some people on here was that these bad rapist cops need to be killed and now all of a sudden the opportunity was presented to kill one and people are saying it's the right move to keep him alive. I can't see it. He should have been given a bullet between the eyes.

 

When I first watched the show I also didn't like season 1 and 2 Rick. In fact I couldn't really connect with any of the characters. Seeing those characters change over time made me appreciate their earlier versions a lot more. For me it's the most interesting part of the show to see how the ZA affects everyone. There's been some reallly good character development.

Daryl is still one of my favorite characters. At the moment he tries very hard to be a good man. But various interviews indicate that this will change after the MSF.

 

3 better than 2? Depends on what they mean to Dawn, she's not very rational so you can't predict how she'll react or negotiate. Perhaps she'll see a strategic advantage in getting 3 of her people back, however 2 maybe just as important to her. It's obvious cop Bob was in charge sO I'd keep him, the other two are expendable.
hostages can be a Dangerous liability (ask Sasha) not always an asset. Team Rick will have to kill every one of the hospital crew Or risk being followed to the church and killed. A peaceful exchange of hostages would've been preferable but unlikely, it would leave them with another termite/hunter problem.

 

I was the exact same way about Rick early on for the exact same reasons that you just named. If not for the the strength and unpredictability of Shane's character I'm honestly not sure I would have continued watching. Theyve done a pretty good job with Ricks development overall. I think that they pushed the hallucination scenes too far and pushed Farmer Rick longer than they should have, but I love this new direction they are taking with him.

This is version of Daryl makes no sense amd has no ring of realism to me as well. It's too drastic for me.

 

It wasn't really that clear, but it might look like the number of hostages does affect how they handle the situation. It looks like their plan is now to take two hostages directly to the hospital and keep one guy as a back up hostage. As I said it's not 100% certain, so we'll have to wait until next episode to find out what the actual plan is.

The newest hostage doesn't look like the kind of guy who would be able to convince Sasha to turn her back on him.

They had two different plans: "kill them all" or "trade hostages". They decided to go with "trade hostages", so they should stick with that plan. Suddenly saying "Hey, we have three hostages. This is our chance to kill them." just doesn't make any sense.

 

Again, one hostage serves the same as two. Taking two hostages to the negotiation wouldn't change a thing. Now if that's the plan having a second hostage does give them more options but the third adds nothing. Let's think of how Rick amd Co. Would handle the same situation. As long as that one person is being held back they would proceed the exact same way whether or not it was one hostage or two in front of them at the negotiation.

That's likely true, but if someone had told me that Sasha would have even turned her back on Lamson the way she did I wouldn't have bought it until I saw it.

This is guy is obviously one of the rapist cops and he just tried to kill Daryl. No advantage is gained with him as a hostage so not killing him is no different than had they decided to keep Gareth alive, IMO. Had he been docile like the others I likely wouldn't be so adamant about thinking he should be killed, but he has given them plenty of justification to do so. The benefits of keeping him alive do not outweigh the threat he poses if things somehow go wrong

 

Maybe it would have worked with one or two hostages. Maybe. But maybe Dawn would only agree to do the trade if it also includes Licari. Dawn knows that three of her cops are out there. What if she asks about Licari and is really pissed off when she finds out that he's dead. That might very well be a dealbreaker for her.

So while we don't know for sure that they would need all three hostages, it is a good idea to keep all options available. If you kill Licari and then find out you would have needed him, it's too late. If you don't need him and think he deserves to die, you can still kill him later.

 

Why would they even have to admit to ever having seen him? I can see your point on the other two that left together, but he wasn't with the other two. He showed up later. They could have easily eliminated the threat and said they'd never seen him. I may be wrong here and would have to re watch but i think that the other two had already been escorted away and would have never known him and Daryl fought.

 

I had the impression that they would still need to escort the other two hostages past the place where Daryl and Licari were fighting. So they would have seen Licari's body if Rick had killed him. But I have to admit that the scene could be interpreted differently.

 

I'd have to rewatch as well. They did a good job of presenting a lot of gray area here as to what should have been done. Both side have a strong argument.

 

I understand but I've never been ashamed of being the pariah of the bunch. You know the old saying,,, would rather be hated for what I am then loved for what I am not. Also there are always a few souls that share my unpopular opinions. Misery loves company and all. etc etc.

 

Yes I think a lot of people sort of agree in their own way. Even though some people have enjoyed the last few episodes for their own personal reasons, I think there is a general let down this season and that everyone is just kind of waiting for that big moment that ties it all up. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed.

 

If Rick was really so reckless and single minded then he wouldn't have hesitated. He would just have shoot that cop right away. But instead he paused. Because he was assessing the situation, valuing if they really needed him and how much of a treat he could still represent etc. I'm pretty sure he was (rightly) inclined to kill him and Daryl's intervention increased a lot the cop's chances to survive but he's not so 'out there' as some seem to believe.


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Anyway regarding Daryl disagreeing with Rick I think it's a reaction to what he saw and learned from Carol - he doesn't want to see his brother (and anyone in general) getting 'consumed' by this new mentality and is trying to push a more moderate approach. Still Tyreese's plan is absurd and it doesn't make sense how Daryl could think that it could work.:zombies_rolleyes:

 

@The Wolf @Lady Nightshade I don't see how unpopular opinions will get you hated on. In fact, there are a lot of people who would agree with you.

This season has been a letdown for me so far. The Hunters/Termites arc was the most enjoyable arc in the show for me so far (not just this season), and I think it ended way too soon. Andrew J. West nailed Gareth's character, and I admit I was sad to see him go. I was fooled by the comic-con trailer. I seriously thought the Termites were going to join Rick's group in going to D.C., and they get killed down the line. Thanks to TPTB for putting that together. Morons.

And don't get me started on the bottle episodes. I'm being biased here, but I just can't get into episodes where my favorite character (Rick) is completely absent. Having Rick gone for three episodes in a row is total BS to me. That crap was pulled last season too. Stop. Doing. That. Beth has had more focus than Rick this season. Scott Gimple has disappointed me. Hopefully the MSF delivers and 5B will be awesome.

 

I'm also very invested in Rick's entire journey since Season 1. All of the twists and turns have worked with him, whereas that hasn't always been the case with some of the other characters. I know some people didn't like the crazy Season 3 version but I bought into that as well because it made sense after Lori's death. There was also a lot that was unresolved between them when she died. And that then led to some or Rick's indecisiveness with the Governor. The story was well told, and even if we might not have agreed with certain choices, or some were poor decisions, we could understand why he did certain things.

And yes, I also really like Michonne as well.

 

Your comments here pretty much sum up the story arcs for the first half.

When you see the pacing for the rest of the season, following episode # 3, the Hunters arc feels rushed. That's why my guess is that they were a little frightened about drawing out a cannibal story too long and just tied it up quickly.

But they could've just pulled a Governor and had them disappear for a few episodes and then return toward the end of the first half. In the middle you could've had the hospital flashback, and then stuff within the group...like Abraham pushing to leave for DC etc. And you could've still done the Daryl/Carol to Atlanta story, but over a couple of episodes and mixed in with other group stories. There is plenty of conflict they could've had, and they could've also dragged it out with them feeling like they were being watched at the church. It would've built the suspense up.

The only thing I like about the whole hospital story is getting to see Atlanta scenes again.

 

Yeah exactly!

 

@WarriorPrincess, I agree with your post completely. As far as I'm concerned the show centers around Rick Grimes and when they have him absent in even one episode that episode usually sucks, like the last 3 have and even in "Crossed" where Daryl has become Tyreese Jr. I'm not interested in Beth at all and could care less what anyone on this forum thinks about that. I'm only interested after waiting a week to see a great episode and if it don't include Team Rick Grimes (Carl, Michonne, Carol, Daryl) working together I can guarantee you that episode will suck. Rick Grimes was in "Crossed" but no one is listening to him anymore and season 5 seems to be becoming like season 3 when they spent whole episodes at Woodbury and ruined characters like Andrea, now they're doing the same thing with Daryl. I wanted to see a more ruthless Rick Grimes and thought everyone else did too. All people ever did here on this forum was complain about Ricks indecisions and now he clearly knows how he wants to deal with hostile humans in the Z.A. but no one likes that now, I mean WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If the show sucks I'm not going to write great posts about it. I thought the first 3 episodes of season 5 were brilliant, the last 4 sucked, that's only my opinion and I'll stick by it.

 

Don't get me wrong...I LOVE this Rick Grimes. It is quite realistic actually considering all these people have been through. Probably a lot more realistic than Ty always wanting to hold hands and sing Kumbaya. I just think that he could get people killed at this point unless there is a voice of reason to counterpoint him. And I also think that is what the show was showing us in that scene.