After Chelle's (brunette) talk with Maggie, I was actually hoping she would stick around longer and possibly turn herself around later in the series. But alas, it wasn't meant to be.

I actually think she felt bad for cutting Maggie's stomach during their short brawl. That's why she was standing there in shock, giving Carol enough time to blow her brains out.

 

it seemed to me that both Paula (ginger) and Chelle both had some good in them. I think they definitely could have been "rehabilitated" and would have fit in nicely with Rick's group. It's too bad they made some bad choices.

 

I think a lot of last night was of a "There but for the grace of God" kind of thing, which makes me wonder about the issue of choices. Carol, Daryl, and Glenn were there from the beginning and IIRC they were never faced with the decision of whether to stay with the group. (There was the issue of leaving for DC but that with the intention of joining back up.) Maggie goeth whither Glenn goeth. I don't think Sasha was ever faced with such a choice, was she? Abe, Rosita, and Eugene were never going to leave Rick's group permanently b/c Eugene had rigged it that way. Michonne made a choice to stick with the group instead of go solo; Tara made a choice when she saw what the Governor was doing and decided not to fight, and then chose to help Glenn find Maggie. To me, one of the biggest themes in the entire series is how random it all was: Paula's boss was a prick; a decent person would have let her be home with her children. Who knows 'chelle's story? [MENTION=6371]Austannibal[/MENTION] said:

I agree. I would have liked to have seen her more most of all.

 

Exactly when Carol tried to reason with Paula I really thought they were going to join Rick's group.

 

Before the episode aired, I actually thought that this group would be some kind of "opposition" to Negan, and they are going to join Rick in crusade against him. I thought that's what "The same boat" means. Too bad that didn't happen, I liked all those ladies, especially Molly. The guy deserved to be killed, though.

 

But was Carol really playing them the whole time or were they playing her?
The thing with this episode to me was that these were all pretty much the same people and in the same boat and you never really knew who was or was not being real at any time.

Carol seemed to float in and out of character but we know here too and know what she is capable of and practiced with who is to say the other girls weren't exactly the same?

Butcher or Cattle but not both!

 

That group was NOT comprised of nice people. Paula, by her own admission, had ceased to care about killing once she reached double digits. Whatever they were pre ZA, their experiences no doubt before and certainly after they got into Negan's group had not made them the type of people who would be easy to "rehabilitate".

Some have said they showed empathy of a sort to Carol and Maggie. I don't think so. Paula had an interest in keeping their hostages in relatively good shape until she knew if the trade was gonna happen or until she had to kill them, which she would have, if she perceived things had gone south. Paula clocking Donnie had more to do with maintaining her control as the leader of the group not because she cared all that much about people she figured she might have to kill anyways.

Being part of Negan's group had blinded them to the fact that people outside of their own could play them. I'll conjecture they haven't run across another group that can match them in fighting ability and they seem to have a certain disdain for those they think are "weaker". It made them lower their guard and created an element of surprise when C & M finally managed to get away and go on the offensive. So while Carol might have felt some empathy towards Paula, even unwisely telling her to run, Paula would never have returned the favor.

 

I'm kind of sad about Chelle and Paula's deaths - I liked both of them a little, despite the circumstances. Am I the only one who saw Maggie in Chelle? I feel like those two could have had a good relationship, should she have survived.

 

You just know Tara would've been lezzing it up with Chelle and Paula at some point. This killjoy Negan probably doesn't allow it.

 

Agreed, we lost these new characters too soon. Particularly the two younger women, they were great. But especially Paula (?) she was awesome and had a lot of potential.
Still though, for one episode, they gave her a lot of back story.
Great character.

 

Paula and Chele both died becuase of the good that remained in them. Sad but true. They could have done the smart thing and killed Maggie and Carol and let Primo die, and escaped with their lives Since Donie was just "some guy to warm her bed" I don't think she let maggie and carol live just because of him, she was hesistant to kill them because she felt bad about it deep inside to kill other women she can relate to and see herself in.

Really sad Paula died. I really love that actress and character. Coulda been so interesting to join Rick's group. Oh well. Especially after I saw Talking Dead, she has such a bubbly personality in real life, it was hot. Haha.

 

Wow, I might have to rewatch this. I had nothing but burning hatred for those women, especially the two younger ones, and couldn't wait to see them SO VERY DEAD. I was only afraid it would happen quickly, and they wouldn't see it coming and suffer enough, lol, especially Paula.
Admittedly I was distracted during the one scene when Paula and Carol did most of their bonding, but I was disappointed Carol was so soft with her. I know the gist of what they talked about, and that they saw themselves in each other, and I watched Talking Dead, but still.. Man, the hatred.

 

SPEAKING of DEATH to characters...

I'm noticing this is a transition time for most of the original group (Rick & Co.)

1. Rick (romance)
2. Michonne (romance)
3. Glenn (parenthood)
4. Maggie (parenthood + political leadership)
5. Abe (emotional disorder? SMH)
6. Rosita (heartbreak)
7. Carol (PTS and renewed faith/hope that people can change)
8. Tara (romance)


Daryl is starting to stick out like a sore thumb in that he is NOT changing/evolving.... what do you think this means?

 

9. Morgan (pacifist from normal guy to nutcase killer)
10. Father gabe (The grim reaper, avenger priest! from meek coward!)
11. Carl - well not yet - but soon

 

[MENTION=96192]forceten[/MENTION] yes - your observations confirm my line of thinking here. Most everyone is evolving in some direction... except Daryl. Coincidence?

 

I saw Maggie in Chelle and Carol in Paula. I even think Carol saw herself in Paula and I think that was intentional. This could quite easily have been Maggie and Carol if their paths had been different and I think Carol realised that. I think this is why she didn't want to kill them.

Rick's group has changed so much at this point, they themselves could be viewed as savage killers from an outsiders perspective. And if another group attacked Alexandria and killed everyone while they were sleeping but Maggie, Carol and two others managed to slip away and capture two members of the attacking group, this scenario would have probably played out exactly the same way. Like Enid said a few episodes back, "They're just people."

Imagine Carol in Paula's place, Maggie in Chelle's place etc. I don't think our group are as far gone as Negan's people (yet) but they're well on there way and I think maybe that's why Carol is reluctant to kill. She saw who she could eventually become in Paula and she doesn't want to be that person. That's why she urges Paula to make the trade and give's her a chance to run. She knows how this is going to end. It's as if she's talking to her future self.

 

I didn't see any good in Paula actually. She was an interesting character though. Some of the new supporting actors can be a bit... forgettable but she did a good job.

 

Loved this episode.

Totally agree with the OP about the Saviors group. They were the highlight of the episode especially - Molls. Their deaths were part of the story, but damn it, why did they have to die?