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Discussion in 'Volume 21: All Out War - Part 2' started by jwcoombs, Mar 12, 2014.

  1. jwcoombs

    jwcoombs Well-Known Member

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    The Saviors try out their newly modified weapons! And, whose side is Dwight really on?

    And almost forgot...R.I.P. KAL; you brought a spear to a gun/zombie tainted crossbow fight!:zombies_lol:

    Discuss issue #123 here!

    [​IMG]
     
    #1 jwcoombs, Mar 12, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2014
  2. MrSmith317

    MrSmith317 Active Member

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    Ok, this was a pretty good issue, left on a cliffhanger which I hate but overall good. That being said I am officially royally pissed off with Kirkman. If Dwight fired that bolt rather than shoving it through Negan's head AND it turns out that Dwight IS on Rick's side rather than playing his own game...if those things are true then I quit. I give up on TWD in its entirety. Dwight has had more than a few chances to take out Negan one on one and missed every one and now given the opportunity to shoot Rick or take out Negan once and for all he chooses to shoot Rick? I'm beyond frustrated with Kirkman's writing on this IF this is what's actually happened.

    Now before people mistake what I've written above. Please note that I'm frustrated with what appears to have happened. I am not saying it was done poorly or anything of that nature. Simply that if the given circumstances are in deed true, then you'll be seeing a lot less of me.
     
  3. Patrickdeh

    Patrickdeh Member

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    Dont start the discussion yet! Let me read it first and then let me post my findings first.
    I prob have read it tommorow morning around 7:00 CET wich would be around midnight today for you guys.

    I want to post my findings and my opinion on a comic before everyone else points them out... Making me think "yeah, they are right. No need to point that out/complain about that"

    Thanks in advance!
     
  4. Tony Davis

    Tony Davis Administrator
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    He's not on either side, he's on his own side. I assume that's not a tainted arrow.
     
  5. filthyastronaut

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    If it is, then holy ****. Kirkman's doing it.

    Still though, I hope Dwight gets a bullet in his head. If he's playing both sides, he's just ****ing everyone over. If he's on Negan's side, **** him. If he's on Rick's side, he's a ****ing idiot for doing that.

    EDIT: You know what? If he is going to kill Rick, and wanted to make it shocking and create suspense and such, this is how he'd do it. Most fans would write off that bolt as being fine, but hey, maybe it isn't. The rest of the arc probably won't take place over a long period of time. This is the final stretch. We're going to be kept in suspense until Issue 125, I'm guessing, and Rick will or will not start showing some symptoms of turning. I think he will. Negan saying that they're all nothing without Rick is Kirkman's way of meta-mocking people who think the series can't survive without Rick. Rick will die, and they will defeat Negan without him.
     
    #5 filthyastronaut, Mar 12, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
  6. jwcoombs

    jwcoombs Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Dwight's going to do whatever get him his results. Which as far as we know is to survive this war and get his wife and stop living under Negan's tyranny. In order to do that he needs Rick's help, so he needs him alive. Because without Rick, things are hopeless for Dwight. If Rick dies, and his army of Survivors lose their morale, and cower at Savior's feet, surrendering to Negan, life goes back to business as usual for Dwight, Negan keeps Sherry as a wife, and all Dwight's efforts were in vain. Or maybe Negan doesn't kill all of the Survivors, and on of the few people who knew of Dwight's betrayal are taken prisoner, and in a desperate act of final vengeance dime him out to Negan, so for all Dwights efforts and trouble he is rewarded with his own death. Yet another possibility, Rick dies, and rather than crumble, the Survivors rally in the wake of their fearless leaders death, savagely destroying the Saviors and avenging Rick. When the gunsmoke settles no one would vouch for Dwight, not even the people who may have know about their arrangement, not with Rick dead. Even if no one knew that it was Dwight who dealt Rick's fatal blow, they would all still be so blinded with anger and grief that they would execute Dwight out of sheer spite, based solely on the fact that he was once a Savior.

    Basically, what I'm getting at, is that no matter which way you spin it; if Rick dies, Dwight loses. And Dwight knows that. Dwight wants his wife and he wants Negan dead. He needs Rick to accomplish those things. Because not only would he be executed on the spot if he succeeded or even attempted to assassinate Negan, whether at the Sanctuary, or in the heat of battle.(Because I', fairly certain the loyalist among the Saviors still outnumber the rebels) But Dwight just doesn't have the stones to do it. He's a coward, craven, those are the characteristic that lead to him becoming a double agent in the first place.

    So in order to remain in what he considers position of power, a position that enables him to continue to play both sides of the fence and ultimately achieve his intended results, he had to follow his master's orders and convey the appearance of the ever loyal dog; while at the same time refraining from fatally wounding Rick in order to maintain his guise as double agent as well the trust and confidence of the Survivors. Dwight knows this war will not end today, and that's why he decided against doing anything drastic.

    The proof is in the the pudding; that arrow never had any zombie muck on it to begin with.

    Negan--"Make sure you get all your arrows dirty."

    Dwight--"Gotta be careful not to alter the weight...and they're called bolts."

    Negan--"What-the-f*ck-ever. Christ."

    Moments later after out-flanking Rick, Aaron and Nicholas...

    Negan--"Shoot him--take Rick out. Even if it's a kill shot--that muck will make him sick. It's perfect."

    *Dwight gives Negan a confused/reluctant look*

    Negan--"The f*ck you waiting on--do it!"

    *Dwight fires; Rick takes bolt through love handle*

    Negan--"Rick's as good as dead--and without him, they're nothing. Game f*cking over."

    It's obvious, Dwight, who is completely aware that despite Negan's orders, he never tainted his bolts in the first palce, is given the perfect opportunity by Negan, to follow orders and feign perfect obedience maintaining the trust and confidence of the Survivors and subsequently sparing Rick's life.
     
  7. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    Looks like we have Amber joining the group to replace Holly. :)

    And I'm glad to see Oscar doing what he can to help out. He's basically a good man. Of course there are things in his past he regrets and he wishes he could see his son more often, but he's trying to do the right thing.

    Of course Rick's arrow is untainted. Dwight is on his own side. He could have just shot Negan in the head. Plenty of chance, when the confusion started. My guess is that Marcus will re-animate inside, biting Dr. Carson and creating internal havoc, and then the brothers Carson will have a brief tear-filled reunion just before Dr. Carson dies.
     
  8. jwcoombs

    jwcoombs Well-Known Member

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    Oh snap! I can't believe I never put that together! Hilltop's doctor Harlan Carson is, in fact, the brother that Carson of the Saviors told Dwight about when they discussing their treason!

    Can't believe that on slipped under my nose! It's even listed on the wiki...
    http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Carson_(Comic_Series)
     
  9. Z-Man

    Z-Man Well-Known Member

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    I don't know now. Up until this issue I saw Negan as a step above the Governor, but now I just can't see it that way. He is bumbling through this whole thing, with only luck as his survival tool. I am 100% certain that Abe would have made all the difference in this war.

    Others claimed he was The Governor 2.0, but I see him more as a .5 beta version now. He is weak, he is stupid, and he is arrogant. At least the Governor had a tank, and when he made his final push he was brutally effective. He should have never pushed his way inside Hilltop, this place may be his grave.
     
  10. Z-Man

    Z-Man Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I caught that in the last issue. It does not bode well for one of them, I believe as [MENTION=7785]Neuropyramidal[/MENTION] said. Eugene and his "Not-Rosita" brigade look like they could become wild-cards in this fight now, and I guess that Maggie and Kal is a no-go.

    I am just ashamed that Negan did not have the stones to sneak up and use Lucille himself. Not too confident in that plan are ya big guy?
     
  11. Tony Davis

    Tony Davis Administrator
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    It's definitely a high level troll, but the question is what is the troll? That we are to believe he's finally dead? Or there's no way Rick is dead? Or we think one way, determine it was a troll and go the other way only to figure out that was the troll?
     
    #11 Tony Davis, Mar 12, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
  12. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    haha, I never read that on wiki, I was just guessing lol. But it made sense.

    Also, after Marcus re-animates, it will be Heath who kills reanimated Marcus, thus proving to himself he is not worthless, and still can be a valued member of the group. ;)
     
  13. jwcoombs

    jwcoombs Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that's something I've always firmly believed too. If they hadn't got the drop on Abe in the early days, when Abe's guard was down and he wasn't even aware of the Saviors existence, Abe would have turned "All out War" into "Remember that one All out Battle?". It would have been like and extended version of what happened to the Hunters. In all seriousness though, with Abe's training, and experience, his knowledge of and how to implement military strategy and the fundamental of war, and his general savage passion and ability to organize rally and inspire troops, he and Rick would have made short work of Negan and the Saviors. Rather than immediately go on the offensive, Abe would have had them consolidate all their forces in the very beginning, choosing to hunker down in the least obvious of the communities, possibly the Kingdom(not sure if Negan was all that aware of the Kingdom to begin with). Then he would have strategically chose one of the other communities to stage their theater, allowing for the battle to be on their terms. Most likely the Alexandria Safe Zone, knowing because of Negan's hatred for Rick he would attack here first. Abe would recruit a unit to hold down the fort at ASZ, preparing the battle field, booby trapping the kill zones, creating choke points, and fortifying the house and barricades for cover and strategically placing lookout and snipers. Then they would wait. And when Negan attacked, the ASZ unit would give him hell, keeping him occupied with the rigged charges, the snipers, and storming the gates. Allowing time and distraction for Abe and Rick to bring up their main force all around the Saviors, out-flanking and surrounding them. Taking the high ground and pinning them down, completely ambushing them, the Saviors situation would have been completely helpless, because at that point, the Survivors win as long as the ammo holds out. But Abe would have already covered that angle, having already had Eugene and his crew in full-on, war machine, mass production, working around the clock for what had already been several weeks(we know this because Abe and Eugene were scouting possible locations to manufacture ammo when he was killed). Abe would have made sure that they amassed an ammo stockpile that could be rivaled only by pre-plague military cachés. Morale of the story, had Abe lived, they would have had this war in the bag. It would have been one for Milton Mamet's post-plague history books!
     
  14. jwcoombs

    jwcoombs Well-Known Member

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    I think Negan is much more intimidated by Rick-motherf*cking-Grimes then he let's on. IMHO Rick's got him figuratively and literally, shaking in his boots. From what we've seen, and what we already know, Rick is the only man who had stood up to Negan in, who know's how long? Maybe the entirety of the post-plague times; up to and including now. Maybe even longer? All I know is that having a one-handed man stand up and spit in your face, and then come to your house and knock down your fence and tear up your lawn after having instilled all that fear, and ruled all that time with an iron first, is enough to make anyone start to sweat.
     
  15. Z-Man

    Z-Man Well-Known Member

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    ^^Yep.
     
  16. jwcoombs

    jwcoombs Well-Known Member

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    Then, regaining his confidence and being the ever resourceful and quick thinker that Heath is, he will see his golden opportunity and swiftly sever the still-reanimated left leg of Marcus. Then, deftly reattach ligament, tendon, muscle and bone, to his own, using the various skills and methods he acquired during his relationship with Doc Cloyd. He will then emerge triumphantly from the house to join the battle. Running headlong into the fray, with the fervor of a seasoned warrior. Easily dispatching Savior after Savior, with the kind of confidence that can be had only by the one man on the battlefield in possession of a leg that never tires; incapable of fatigue!
     
  17. MrSmith317

    MrSmith317 Active Member

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    Are you sure you're not RK?
     
  18. filthyastronaut

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    I give up.
     
  19. jwcoombs

    jwcoombs Well-Known Member

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    If you're right, here's the cover to #128 LOL

    [​IMG]
     
  20. TheILLness

    TheILLness Well-Known Member

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    well were finally here. the beginning of the end of All out War. holy shit it was great. i have no idea what to expect in 124 & 125, but i can imagine it will be some crazy shit
     

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