Purriwinkle

"I share this award with my good-looking brother from another mother..." or words to that effect. Listening to the speech one would not think anything of it, I certainly did not. But if you are a fan living and dreaming GOTs any crumbs no matter how off the mark it is, will do, and the theory of the Lannister children having different fathers has been out there for years.


Stealth

Not GOTs, but there is a spin-off that is supposed to air in the future. Surely if this speculation is true of the Lannister children having different parentage the showrunners would wish to bring some light to this.

Purriwinkle

As you say, no doubt every actor/actress has signed a non-disclosure agreement and no one has said anything directly, but we are the fans and anything will do. That speech probably has nothing to do with the GOTs series, but anything that gives some wind to an existing speculation is something to talk about no matter how absurd it is.

 

I went back and listened and for sure he said that but just so I didn't confuse what I thought that meant, I got the definition of the phrase:

A friend who is close enough that you consider them a brother, or a half-sibling with the same father but different mother. It means you have the same father, but different mothers.

That's gotta be a real life reference. Couldn't be show related cause that would mean that Tywin was the father for both boys but Joanna wouldn't be the mother??? Yet text and show says she died giving birth to Tyrion so nah. Obviously, both actors have become very close over the years and Peter wanted to acknowledge it, especially since he won over Nikolaj who I thought had some memorable moments in the last season. "The Mad King is the Dad" theorists literally got what Peter said backwards.

Book wise, IMO it was Tywin's comeuppance to have the son he thought he deserved (Jaime) but who had no interest in carrying on the Lannister torch and the one he didn't want turned out to be the boy most like him, only with a heart. It would take away from the crazy dysfunction of the Lannister family dynamics if Tywin's suspicions about Tyrion turned out to be true and might give dad's cruel behavior towards him some context. I like to think there was a bit of divine justice to the way things ate away at the old man and how he met his end at Tyrion's hand.

 

@purriwinkle Thinking about it in that context it makes sense, but wouldn't it be intriguing if we find out later there is actually a twist to this whole Tywin/Tyrion/ Joanne story? We still have two books to go and you never know what Bran will see in the future.

Actually, I am very interested in the plot with Tyrion/Jon/Dany/Cersei. Does he really double cross Jon/Dany and sides with his sister? Let face it, Tyrion always wanted to be accepted by his family and he feels mighty guilty that he left them vulnerable when he kills Tywin as Cersei bitterly pointed out.

In season 7 all of Tyrion's plans all fell through when it came to attacks where Lannisters we involved or they benefited and this is not like him, he is a keen strategist always on point and knows where to hit hard, which brings me to think either it was done on purpose and is in cohorts with someone in KL. I would laugh if we find out in season 8 he has been sending ravens to KL hinting of Dany's next move.

Not interested in who gets the IT as we know it is going to be a bitter/sweet ending which means someone outside gets it and everyone we are rooting for dies.

 

I know I'm on record somewhere saying that many fans treat this "story" like it was some sort of Agatha Christie mystery when in fact, Martin said many years ago, he wanted to write a more adult version of a Lord of the Rings type saga. There have been a few plot twists but once we get the reveal it seems some readers are not happy and look for the reveal to somehow be a misdirection. In most cases that really wouldn't serve to advance the story line, IMO.

Having said that, it's painfully obvious that the show and the books have diverged into two separate realities. In D&D's version I imagine anything is possible but even there I don't see Tyrion as some traitor, secretly supporting a family that never wanted him, save his brother, who last we saw has left his sister's side to fight in the North. It's a red herring that Tyrion's strategizing so far has fallen short of the mark. It might make you think something is up but I feel it's only the catalyst that serves the purpose of throwing Dany into Jon's arms...as we saw. And creating some tension between the Queen and her Hand.

I cannot fathom how the ending can be "bitter sweet" but I believe D&D have fallen prey to this current scorched earth trend of killing off all the characters you have learned to love. I would categorize it as just bitter. I'm hoping for more from the books, although their progress also leaves a bitter taste.

 

I like Tyrion and I hope I am wrong, but some things do not add up with him lately.

Aside from his sloppy plans which cost the defeat of all of Dany's Allies and indirectly a dragon, he must have had to promise something to Cersei to get her to come out and pledge her fake "support" to Dany's cause.

Also, I want to draw an analogy between Tyrion and Jon when it comes to family. Jon, as we know, was rejected by Cat who would have turned him out if she had her way, however, he was loved by Anya and Robb. Do you think he would ever betray his family if he had the chance? Likewise, Tyrion born a dwarf, rejected by his father and hated by his sister, but loved by his brother Jaime, do you think he would betray his family? I cannot help but feel the family ties of these two are strong, destroying the Lannisters would mean also destroying his brother Jaime whom he loves dearly. However, with Jaime seeing through his sister's treachery and leaving the camp, this may change the dynamics in the future.

Last but not least let us not forget the advice of the late Queen Oleanna Tyrell to Dany about Tyrion, if nothing else should serve as a foreboding "I've known a great many clever men. I've outlived them all. You know why? I ignored them. The lords of Westeros are sheep. Are you a sheep? No. You're a dragon. Be a dragon."

 

I agree that Tyrion would never forsake Jaime but support Cersei on the Iron throne is another matter altogether. Seeing Cersei unthroned doesn't mean he's betraying the Lannisters. Quite the opposite. He's saving Casterly Rock from utter destruction at the hands of possible Targ retribution. Do you remember the Dunk and Egg stories? In the third novella, Blood Raven has the castle involved with harboring the Blackfryre heir decreed razed to the ground and the earth salted over as a reminder to others. If Dany were to become Queen she would never destroy her Hand's ancestral home despite Cersei (I hope, lol).

Besides, I think Tyrion really believes in Dany and her causes. I think he believes the throne is rightfully hers. That's not a stretch as Tywin was Aery's hand for years and would have continued supporting him if he had accepted Cersei as Rhaegar's wife, instead of Elia. The only fly in the ointment for me was the look on Tyrion's face when he saw Jon go into Dany's room. Was he hurt thinking Jon might replace him? But didn't that happen after the meeting with Cersei?

As for what Tyrion promised Cersei, I Don't think he promised her anything. Didn't he meet secretly with Jaime to bring about the meeting in the first place and wasn't Cersei incensed at Jaime for going behind her back? I think she went along because she didn't want it publically known that there might be some discord between herself and Jaime. Didn't she say she'd help but her reneging was to make Tyrion out to be a fool in Dany's eyes and to try to use the situation to her advantage?That's why Jaime left, wasn't it? Because he couldn't believe Cersei didn't get it? I'll have to rewatch that.

 

@purriwinkle

Two important disclosures came out of that private meeting Cersei.

1. Its the first time Tyrion shows remorse about killing Tywin as Cersei tells him he left his family vulnerable and the vultures moved in. What does that mean, well his actions caused a chain of events to happen which makes him indirectly responsible for the deaths of Marcella and her brother. Of course, Cersei is not going to tell him that her stupidity played a big part of it.

2. He learns she is with child, and let us not forget he loved both of Cersei's younger children and if he does indeed feel indirectly responsible for Cersei losing her two younger children, don't you think he might want to make it up to her?

So, we probably miss the part where he says, "how can I make it up to you.." and a deal was struck. Maybe. Now let's not forget that Tyrion berated Jon only moments ago for not being able to lie about backing Dany as queen, but Tyrion can do this as he maintains a poker face, giving nothing away, we then see Cersei and her entourage back outside, it is only in the dark his face reveals his guilt.

Do you want to bet on this? Winner buys the other a kindle book of their choice.

 

I'm not that worried about the ending on the TV side because I believe it's possible to make it bittersweet without killing off most of our primary characters. For instance I think it's safe to say that Jaime and Cersei will die, and those are two central characters from the start of the series. So with those alone D&D get their "blood." Also you have to factor in that the Night's King is going to do a lot of damage, and if he gets as far as King's Landing it means that many kingdoms will also be decimated. This adds to the bitter part even more because there will be much rebuilding to do.

Then we're probably going to have another fight for the throne against Cersei, where we'll lose other secondary characters. Being that the working title of the final book was "A Time for Wolves" I think it sets up the possibility that the Starks will not lose anyone else. They've suffered enough anyway. Perhaps Bran could go after he serves his purpose in defeating the Night's King, but I don't see that happening to Arya, Jon or Sansa after all they've endured.

Previously I thought Jon surviving meant Dany would die, but now I think they could both make it, which would be the sweet part of the equation after they're surrounded by so much devastation.

 

This jumped out at me during the finale too, that we did not see the end of Tyrion and Cersei's conversation.

Also when Jaime was getting the army ready to go north, Cersei said to him, "you've always been the stupidest Lannister." It seems like something that is a natural offshoot after just concocting a plan with Tyrion that Jaime was unable to see through. Besides, would Tyrion be so foolish to take his sister at her word?

Rather than complete betrayal though I see it as Tyrion just playing a balancing act and hedging his bets. He doesn't want to see his family destroyed, but he also realizes that the war against the Night's King is going to come at a great cost, leveling out the sides.

 

Aah, my old friend, we've been down this road before, true? Lol
I'll take you up on it. If you should win, just let me know how I can get your kindle book to you.

I'm less sure of myself than I was over whether Lash would rape Xhex, and if we were betting on the book Tyrion I would stand on firm ground cause I Would know what the character's thoughts were. On the show anything goes so I figure my chances are at least even, lol. I will be disappointed in my Tyrion if you are right however.

 

I've always loved the Lannister boys. One because he could change and the other because he could overcome horrendous obstacles placed in his path.

The show brothers are not so easy to get a handle on.
Deep down, Tyrion is hurt by the way his sister treats him but as X-Hunter points out, she is family. I don't think he would ever deliberately hurt her but at the same time I don't think he would support her either even if it means he has to mislead her in some way. And he's for sure hella smart but hedging his bets is such a Tywin thing to do, I hope Tyrion wouldn't go that route. I want to believe that once he gives his allegiance, he's all in and wouldn't betray his sworn Queen....no matter what.

 

Yeah, that's how I see it as him hedging his bets. It's not just him and Dany against Westeros anymore. Jon is now the person she is closest to. And it started early on after she admonished Tyrion about the sacking of Highgarden. She then turned away from him and asked Jon his military opinion. After it she had her first full victory against Cersei with that rearguard attack on the Lannister army.

Then Tyrion could see the bond getting even closer when Dany went north to save Jon's group. He's also told her a few times now not to risk her own life. He was pretty emotional about it at one point too. If Dany died Tyrion would like feel he'd be in a bad spot with the Starks. Sure he gets along fine with Jon, and he was kind to Sansa during their sham marriage. but with the history between the two families and the animosity to Lannisters in the north, he can't go all in with the Starks.

Hopefully a betrayal is not in the cards because I'd like to see Tyrion survive the finale, but I wouldn't be surprised with them taking that route.

 

Tyrion betraying Dany in Dragonpit from FrickiDr.

I remember that was a hyped scene before the rumors about Tyrion.

Spoilers from r/freefolk

Season 8 basic information:

• Number of episodes: 6
  
  
• Writers: Dave Hill (E01), Bryan Cogman (E02), David Benioff & D. B. Weiss (E03-E06)
  
  
• Directors: Miguel Sapochnik (E03 and E05 only), David Nutter (2-3 episodes), David Benioff & D. B. Weiss (E06, maybe another episode)
  
  
• Directors of Photography: Fabian Wagner (with Sapochnik), David Franco (with Nutter), Jonathan Freeman (with Benioff & Weiss)
  
  
• Budget: About $ 15 million per episode
  
  
• Start of filming: October 2017
  
  
• End of filming: July 2018
  
  
• Premiere date: First half of 2019
  

Shooting locations and dates:

• Titanic Studios, Belfast: Unknown amount of filming, starting October 2017
  
  
• Linen Mill Studios, Banbridge: Unknown amount of filming at studios and outdoor ships set, starting October 2017
  
  
• Moneyglass: November 2017: Filming with Unsullied
  Jan 2018 - March 2018: 5-6 weeks of filming nocturnal battle scenes (~ 30 nights) [Sapochnik episode]
  
  
• Ballintoy: Dec 5-6, 2017: One or two days of filming at the cliffs near Ballintoy Harbour
  April 19-26, 2018: More filming on the cliffs near Ballintoy harbour
  
  
• Shane's castle: Jan 18, 2018: Filming [Sapochnik episode]
  
  
• Iceland: Jan 28 - Feb 4, 2018: 1-3 days of filming at unknown locations (Kit Harington, Emilia Clarke), a week of drone shooting [Nutter episode]
  
  
• Dubrovnik, Croatia: Feb 6-8, 2018: 2-3 days of filming (Kit Harington, Lena Headey, Hafþór Björnsson) [Nutter and/or Benioff/Weiss episode]
  
  
• Saintfield: March 2018: Night shoots (~ 10 nights) [Sapochnik episode]
  June: Possible filming with Dothraki riders at Lessans Riding Stables near Saintfield the first week of June
  
  
• Magheramorne: March 15 - April 7, 2018: Giant green screen, night shoots (~15 nights) [Sapochnik episode]
  June: Possible filming with horses during last week of June
  
  
• Randalstown Forest: March 29, 2018: One day of filming
  
  
• Outdoor set at Titanic Studios, Belfast: Filming started around April 20th
  
  
• Italica, Spain: Filming during May 2018
  
  
• Tollymore Forest Park. GoT signs spotted at May 3 and May 13, filming dates unknown.
  
  
• Cushendun Caves: Filming June 7th/8th.
  

Latest news and leaks:

• October 7, 2018: Aerial pictures of Belfast outdoor set from a helicopter flicht (via u/GoTlikeLocations)
  
  • Source | Discussion 1 | Discussion 2
• October 7, 2018: Older video of drone flight around the Belfast outdoor set, filmed around mid-March 2018 (via u/NightKingArmy)
  
  • Source | Discussion
• October 6, 2018: In an interview with Vulture, Sophie Turner talks about "fake scenes" in Croatia, "drone killers", and (wrong) season code names
  
  • Source | Discussion
• September 30, 2018: According to VFX supervisor Joe Bauer Ghost will be back and have "a fair amount of screen time in season 8" (via Huffington Post)
  
  • Source | Discussion
• September 21, 2018: New details about the Dragonpit scenes by Frikidoctor
  
  • Correction of last post: Gemma Whelan / Yara Greyjoy was also filming at Sevilla / Itálica
  • More information about the two new characters at the Dragonpit: The man in golden armour / clothing is played by actor Toby Osborne, the second is an older man with a short beard
  • There were no other people at the Dragonpit - no audience, no witnesses, only the 10 named characters, the two new ones and some Unsullied guards
  • Source | Discussion 1 | Discussion 2
• September 15, 2018: New details about Tyrion's treason by Frikidoctor
  
  • Tyrion's trial was the only scene filmed in Sevilla / Itálica - no action scenes, green screens or cgi
  • ONLY characters filming there: Tyrion, Davos, Sansa, Arya, Bran, Sam, Brienne, Robin, Grey Worm with Unsullied guards, and 2 new characters (one with a golden armour, one with a beard)
  • NOT filming were: Jaime, Cersei, Gendry, Jaqen, the Waif, Yara, Yohn Royce, Jon (and his body double)
  • Source 1 / English video | Source 2 / Spanish live Q&A | Discussion
• September 07, 2018: Information about season 8 by Frikidoctor: Tyrion will be executed after a trial for treason at the Dragonpit
  
  • The reveal of his treason will be a long scene with 5 characters: Jon, Arya, Sansa, Daenerys and Tyrion
  • His trial will be held at the Dragonpit
  • Tyrion will be executed for treason, in which way is still unknown
  • Kit Harington did not film in Sevilla at all
  • Emilia Clarke was never in Sevilla at all
  • Source | Discussion
• September 06, 2018: An interview with Peter Dinklage by EW about Tyrion's cryptic look during boatsex
  
  • Source
• September 06, 2018: Watchers On The Wall claims that NCW will only appear in 4 episodes in season 8 - A wrong interpretation of an article by The Hollywood Reporter that quickly gets debunked by u/juligen
  
  • Source 1 - The Hollywood Reporter |Source 2 - WotW | Source 3 & Discussion
• August 29, 2018: Frikidoctor tweets some tidbits of information about the Sevilla filming
  
  • Kit Harington and Vladimir Furdik did not film together in Italica - they were not there at the same time | Source
  • Kit Harington and Lena Headey did not film together in Italica - Kit arrived in Sevilla after Lena left | Source
  • Rupert Vansittart and Gemma Whelan were in Sevilla; at least Rupert was indeed filming | Source
  • Discussion
• August 27, 2018: EW confirms that "HBO expects the show will air all its episodes in time for the 2019 Emmy eligibility cut off", debunking Joe Bauer's prior comments
  
  • Source | Discussion
• August 27, 2018: First short season 8 scene released in HBO's new "Coming in 2019" promo video
  
  • Source 1 - Twitter | Source 2 - Full HBO promo | Discussion
• August 25, 2018: According to vfx supervisor Joe Bauer, season 8 release date might be later than we thought (via HuffPost)
  
  • Source | Discussion
• August 8, 2018: Polish actor Pavel Sakowski filmed 12 days for GoT season 8 (via u/jorywea78)
  
  • Source | Discussion
• August 2, 2018: Mark Gatiss claims his character Tycho Nestoris will not appear in season 8
  
  • Source | Discussion
• July 25, 2018: According to HBO programming chief Casey Bloys we will not have "a season of two-hour episodes" and he "guesses" the first trailer will come out in 2018 (via EW)
  
  • Source | Discussion
• July 25, 2018: Season 8 will premiere in the 'first half' of 2019 (according to HBO programming president Casey Bloys)
  
  • Source | Discussion
• July 22, 2018: Speculation that Grey Worm may still be alive in episode 6 (via u/gravemaster7)
  
  • Source | Discussion
• July 20, 2018: New video by Frikidoctor and Javi Marcos claims the following information is confirmed:
  
  • Daenerys sends some Unsullied to Castle Black (because Bran saw the NK advancing)
    
  • People are shouting to open the gates when the big fire in KL starts
    
  • Kit Harington did not film at Itálica at all
    
  • Source
• July 19, 2018: Post claiming to provide information on some of the plot points for season 8 by u/BoatsexBaby
  
  • Source & Discussion
• July 18, 2018: Actress Laura Elphinstone will play a character named 'Nora' in season 8
  
  • Source | Discussion
• July 13, 2018: Some possible post-production info on two scenes (via u/gravemaster7)
  
  • Source & Discussion

Archived posts:

• News and Leaks March 2018 - July 2018 (End of filming)
  
  
• News and Leaks August 2017 - March 2018 (by u/KaySen762)
  

Leak Spreadsheet by u/rakfocus

• A great compilation of season 8 leaks up to March 2018 - confirmed, unconfirmed and fake ones

 

Some news on the GOT spinoff series. There's a rumor that Naomi Watts has been cast to play a large role. I'm a little unsure about this one though since they normally cast British and Irish actors.

 

No Winds of Winter but there is a another Ice and Fire book on the horizon. It is called Fire and Blood and it is all about the Targaryans 300 years before GOTs. This should tidy some of us over till the show.

I am thinking, Is WOTs now on the backburner? Every year a GRRM releases a new book, but nothing on WOTs. As the show closes and the ending becomes clear, does that mean the book may be slower in releasing, if at all?

@purriwinkle I do not see any mention of another legacy series BDB Book, but fireman is hitting left right and centre. It was even free for a while and still I will not read it!

 

October 25, 2018: New details about Tyrion's treason / trial by Javi Marcos and Frikidoctor

• Tyrion is responsible for the fire that kills thousands of King Landing's inhabitants
• The last scene Peter Dinklage filmed was Tyrion walking through the destroyed streets filled with burned corpses, accompanied by Jon and Davos
• Source | Discussion

 

I've always said that the only two interesting families in Westeros going way back were the Starks and the Targaryens. I'm going to check this out. My first thought was, is this new material? Probably or is this a stand alone of his novella that he wrote for the Dangerous Women Anthology (The Princess and the Queen, or, the Blacks and the Greens)? That was also a good read if you like the Targs and you're looking for some Martin material to pass the time. Thanks for the info

 

I saw an interview Martin gave on this book a few months back and believe it is new material. I feel the same way about the Starks and Targaryens being the most interesting families. That's one reason why I'm looking forward to the spinoff since it's focused on the early Starks.

Some fans are angry at Martin for releasing Fire and Blood before The Winds of Winter, but I'll take it.

 

I looked over the spreadsheet compilation of the alleged leaks. What are the major things you believe will happen? I cant believe Tyrion will "turn bad". Too many viewers like him. Since going off the books the show has appeared much more conventional to me, seemingly written so as to please and not upset fans. (instacure for Jorah Greyscale ?)
Some think because George Martin said he would have a bittersweet ending in book that the show would do same. I am not totally convinced the show will be as bitter as Martin would and will try to be sweeter.

 

A big part of the bitter aspect I believe is simply that we're going to have a great deal of devastation from the Night's King. Since he's gotten past the wall now that's a given. Other beloved secondary characters like Jorah etc will likely die, and the ending between Jaime and Cersei will be tragic. I don't see more than one Stark dying though, and if one does my money would be on Bran. All in all it can be a pretty rough ending and you can still have both Dany and Jon surviving. Of those two, Dany is the more likely for them to kill. I don't see them killing Jon again. I'm leaning toward both living right now though.