That's good to know. Also D&D not around to add their nonsensical spin to things.

 

They nailed the premiere. The visuals from the opening scene were perfect as they showed the young Rhaenyra flying into King's Landing on her dragon. All the early cinematography really draws you in.

The tone of the series was a bit darker than I expected. There was only one joke tossed in by Daemon at the meeting of the council to Otto Hightower.

The birth scene was brutal to watch, but they did a good job interspersing scenes with the violent tourney with it.

My favorite moment was when Daemon told Viserys that he needed his help because he was weak. And Viserys was demonstrating this clearly by having his brother come before him while he was on the throne. Such a conversation should've just been one on one, but he needed all the props around him to make a stand against Daemon. The sad thing is too that Daemon really does have the best interests of Viserys at heart.

My only small bit of criticism is how they worked in a dream Aegon had about a long winter destroying Westeros. I don't remember that from the books. Maybe @purriwinkle recalls something about it, but I don't think it was in Fire and Blood.

I'd prefer for them to just forge their own path here. Besides they have a clear cut story to tell. They don't need to tie the show into Game of Thrones at all. In fact they'd be better served to not let fans think back on it. Nice start though.

 

I’m not home so won’t be able to view the premiere until later tonight or perhaps tomorrow morning. Then I’ll weigh in. Sounds like it was a good opening. Off the top of my head I don’t remember any specific dream Aegon had about a long winter either but if I get a chance I’ll see if I can find any reference to it in the book. Some of the Targs were prophetic dreamers. Wasn’t that how they escaped the doom of their homeland to begin with, if I recall correctly?

 

Back again. I watched the episode finally. I enjoyed it although in true GRRM fashion it was dark and graphic. I felt they followed the book account for the most part although they embellished perhaps parts of it for the sake of putting something out there the audience wouldn't forget, I imagine. Let's take that cesarean birth scene of Queen Aemma. The book reads:

"Thus did matters stand in King's Landing late in the year 105 AC, when Queen Aemma was brought to bed in Maegor's Holdfast and died whilst giving birth to the son that Viserys Targaryen had desired for so long. The boy (named Baelon, after the king's father) survived her only by a day, leaving king and court bereft..."

Short and to the point. Also the jousting scene between Criston Cole and Daemon, interspersed with the birthing scene was out of the book timeline as it happened at King Viserys's accession per the book. Rhaenyra was only seven.

"...Ser Criston was a comely young knight of three-and twenty years. He first came to the attention of the court when he won the melee held at Maidenpool in honor of King Viserys's accession. In the final moments of the fight, Ser Criston knocked Dark Sister from Prince Daemon's hand with his morningstar, to the delight of His Grace and the fury of the prince. Afterward, he gave the seven-year-old Princess Rhaenyra the victor's laurel and begged for her favor to wear in the joust. In the list, he defeated Prince Daemon once again...."

Perhaps too cut and dry although, as I'm sure we'll see in future episodes, the writers were no doubt following Mushroom's account of events, LOL.

As to that "dream". It wasn't in the text of what was happening at the time that I've read so far unless they pulled it from another part of the book. Still, I don't remember reading it anywhere else. *shrugs* My first impression also was it was added to act as a bridge and justification for viewers as to what happened many years later in Thrones. I agree, not needed but I have yet to see many movies or tv shows for that matter, taken from books, that weren't altered to fit the medium. I'm keeping my fingers crossed they don't make a shambles of the story line down the road but off to a good start.

Oh, Daemon is only after the throne but he doesn't have the temperament to be a good king. Visery's on the other hand according to the book,

"...had a generous , amiable nature, and was well loved by his lords and smallfolk alike. The reign of the Young King, as the commons called him upon his ascent, was peaceful and prosperous."

The writers made Visery's look somewhat weak but I suggest that they had that meeting between brothers in the throne room with Visery's white cloaks to guard him because he knew his brother was, as the book describes him, "hot tempered" and might decide to slay him after hearing his decree to go back to his wife in the Vale. He might have forgiven Daemon a lot but he wasn't taking any chances when it came to his own life. That was using his brains and as we saw, Daemon started to go towards his brother and the white cloaks barred his way. The book said after hearing what Visery's had to say he was "furious".

Then there was the fact that Daemon was the Commander of the City Watch. Viscery's was in essence banishing him and so he had to do it in as official a manner as he could. Besides, Viscery's was "livid" when hearing what Daemon said about his dead son being "heir for a day" so what better way to put Daemon in his place. I'm king and you're not.

 

Yeah, I thought the only one who was really into prophecy regarding the Long Night was Rhaegar. With Aegon it was about escaping Valyria. This is not a serious problem for me, but it's kind of odd that this is passed along just from king to heir. Having them be the only ones to know is a bit of a stretch.

I give more leeway than most when it comes to book adaptations. I'm usually good with things as long as they stay true to the characters and the story. That's why my first big problem with GOT was how they handled the Dorne plot. Maybe if House of the Dragon had waited a couple of episodes before hitting us with the reference to Aegon's prophecy I would've been better with it. I thought they needed to distance themselves a bit more from their predecessor. Again, nothing major so far.

Naturally they expanded on the birth scene, and that was fine except I thought they should've had Viserys tell Aemma that it was either both died, or they could try to save the baby. She would've gone along with that. It was just cruel and unnecessary that she would be unaware of what was happening to her in that moment. That's the one thing that I thought was a bit out of character in the episode. Why wouldn't Viserys tell her?

I think their depiction of Viserys though is going to be as a weaker king. As we knew going in the books leave open room for interpretation. So I believe what they're presenting, and we'll see if I'm right in the episodes that follow, is a man that lacks the required strength. He's not only being manipulated by Otto, but I really feel that if he were to make Daemon his Hand, this would have been the best move to insure Rhaenyra ascending to the throne. Daemon has a close bond with her and would provide the necessary power to install her if he had the position beside his brother.

I'm not going to include the various spoilers here because we know there is a long road from point A to B, and many twists and turns in the relationships. But I believe that Daemon is being painted more as an Uhtred type in this show, who is not appreciated or respected etc. But this is getting a bit too far into things for a first episode. lol

What I find most intriguing here about House of the Dragon is that while we both know where the story leads, there is a lot more room for the showrunners to give us both some surprises since Fire and Blood is basically a history of the Targaryens.

So that's basically my own interpretation of where they're taking Daemon. He is the one wildcard in the series, and people that are strong and independent are sometimes painted worse in the history than they really were since they go against the grain and upset those in power.

 

Once I read about a character's, well character, it's hard for me to think of them in any other light. I form strong likes and dislikes based on the information presented. Writers can try to make it ambiguous on screen but it usually doesn't sway me. That's the problem with being familiar with the source material. With Daemon, for instance, he's a creeper in the book and that comes back to me whenever I see his scenes.

For me the whole story in a nut shell is first off, a Cain and Abel story where one brother is jealous of the other to the greater destruction of all. Secondly it's a comment on the place of women in politics. We have a policy of succession whereby no woman can sit the Iron Throne nor be passed through to her male descendants no matter how capable they might be. What happens when that policy is challenged is catastrophic, not that it needed to be. Lastly we can see what women (and some men) will do to see that their lineage gains and holds power. It's the scheming, the back stabbing, the alliances, etc that makes the story so captivating. Everybody wants to rule the world as the song goes.

Needless to say, on principle alone I took a side long ago when I first read the story of the Dance. I'm team black but I still think Daemon took liberties he shouldn't have for his own advantage. I'll be interested to see how the writers incorporate his doings into the show. Matt Smith is doing a bang up job of portraying the complex and yes, to me, villainous but compelling Targ.

Regardless of one's feelings about the way the current king is portrayed, the real nitty gritty doesn't begin until

and then all hell breaks loose. It should be good.

 

I'm team black all the way too. While I think Milly Alcock is doing a great job as the younger Rhaenyra, I can't wait to see Emma D'Arcy play the adult version. As I said in an earlier post, even in the trailers she has real screen presence.

There is definitely no gray area with Otto. He's detestable. You could tell at the council meeting by his subtle gestures that Corlys is done with him. He was discussing the problems at the Stepstones and Otto is like, hey forget about that, let's discuss the tourney.

One other thing about Daemon. There's a hunch I have for the end of the series. I think:

 

Another well done episode. Viserys is really making a mess of things. The whole standoff with Daemon continued to make him look weak. He was going to go to Dragonstone himself, but then he followed the puppetmaster Otto's advice and stayed in the Red Keep. He looked even worse when his 15-year-old daughter flew in on Syrax and got the dragon egg back herself.

Then to make matters even worse, he doesn't tell Corlys or Rhaenyra in advance that he's marrying his puppetmaster's daughter. I think Corlys would have still been angry, but Viserys could've at least tried to play it off that she was too young. Instead he insults him at the council.

I continue to be intrigued by how they're portraying Daemon in the series.

Milly Alcock is doing an amazing job. And it's not just because Rhaenyra is my favorite character in this story. She's just so good in the role. The overall casting has been excellent.

I'm interested in seeing how they portray Criston Cole here.

The pacing moved a little faster than I expected in this episode. I thought they might wait with the Alicent reveal until the next one. It works though because it's a catalyst to set other events in motion. Corlys in particular had some very significant scenes.

I was impressed with how they re-claimed the Game of Thrones opening music as their own. They had separation in the first episode to show House of the Dragon was different than the mess we saw in GOT. But the score is so good, that Martin and the creators did not want to cede it.

Another little thing, at the end of the credits there is the GRRM logo, as if to say THIS is all his, and it's canon.

Really excited for the series and the franchise.

 

I liked the second episode as well. My impression is that Viserys is easily manipulated at this point because his grief is so great over losing his first wife. Otto sees this and uses it to his advantage to pimp his daughter out to the grieving and lonely king. Because Viserys trusts his small council (especially his hand who has presumably been with him for years serving faithfully) he doesn’t necessarily assume they have a secret agenda.

What about Otto? I think he was serving faithfully until Aemma’s death because there was no opportunity for him to do otherwise as long as she was alive and still able to conceive heirs. Now in her absence the temptation for advancement overcame his better judgement. What other Targaryen maidens were available for the king to mate except the young Laena? That might have been the strongest alliance but because of her age was also a long shot. I think he reasoned that if the king died before she matured, in his opinion, the only two candidates left to rule would be Rhaenyra and/or Dameon…a woman and a roue. He’d be out of a job before he could say Targaryen. Alicent was of age and there was precedent as Rhaenys (the queen that never was) mother was a Baratheon.

The way they did it was underhanded though. Rhaenyra was blindsided by the fact that Alicent, her BFF, never mentioned that she’d been keeping time with her father. She’s a smart girl and not only was she hurt I’m sure she could smell a rat a mile away as the first attempt to undermine her actually becoming heir. Aunt Rhaenys tried to tell her how it was but she didn’t believe it. She’s getting that wake up call.

What about Daemon. He tried to use his girlfriend to get back into his brother’s good graces or press the issue forcibly but that was a bust because of his niece. Even Mysaria was disgusted with him. So why didn’t Daemon strike down Rhaenyra when she invited him to do so. He looked at her hard and long. You could see the wheels turning in his mind. He’s come up with another plan because he thinks he can use this strong willed girl to his purpose. Maybe he can get to the throne through/with her.
In the meantime he’s taking into consideration what the spurned Corlys is offering him…a chance at a military comeback.

I agree that Viserys handled the whole I’m getting married again speech very badly by not giving Corlys a heads up first in private. I think he owed him that much of a courtesy at least.

Loving the scenes with dragons cause what’s not to love, right? Even Otto knew on that bridge he was one step away from becoming a roasted marshmallow. Damn straight, sheath that f**king steel, lol.

 

Yeah, it was a real pendulum for Rhaenyra in this episode. She had such confidence that things would be different for her than it was for Rhaenys. What impressed me too was that she's wise enough even at her age to recognize that her father needed to remarry. She even grudgingly accepted that. She handled it all better than anyone could've expected it. Then he just slaps her in the face, without notice, revealing to all that he's going to marry her good friend. Brutal.

We're on the same page with Corlys. I thought Viserys could've smoothed it over with him a bit if he had taken him aside first. Would Corlys have been upset and seen it as a rebuke? Yes. But Viserys had a great excuse, he couldn't wait 2 years for Laena to be of age. Instead he insults a chief ally. And to make matters even worse, Viserys hasn't been taking Corlys seriously for months regarding the problems on the Stepstones.

The Daemon and Rhaenyra scene was one of the best ones in the episode. I don't believe he was ever considering killing her. They have too close of a bond, which we saw from episode one. He's always bringing things back for her. Daemon just seemed amazed and impressed by her courage and strength. His problem too really isn't with her, but his brother. And she called him on it, knowing fully where her uncle stood. This is what made him tossing the dragon egg back at her amusing. It was like, okay you one upped me, impressive, now go away. lol

I loved how they used the Mysaria scene. It did two things. First it showed how this was all just a game for him to get the attention of his brother. And at the same time it demonstrated how regular people are often just collateral damage for the powerful. His little game puts her in real danger, but it's just another day if you're a Targaryen. Daemon and Viserys are almost complete opposites, but one characteristic they seem to share is not telling those people closest to them, what the hell they're doing. Viserys I feel though does it out of a fear of confrontation, and weakness. Daemon does it more out of hubris.

The dragons really have been well done. I really appreciate some of the little things the showrunners toss in too. When Syrax was flying in we get a shot of Caraxes reacting to it in a "what the hell is happening," kind of way. Last week they did a great job too with Syrax being reluctant to go back inside the dragon pit.

We're so lucky that they killed that Long Night sequel, or House of the Dragon might've never gotten green lit. That other series would've crashed and burned. The first episode of House of the Dragon had 10 million viewers and the HBO Max site crashed. Ten million was the average viewership for GOT Season 7. The final season was a bit higher. Then when they calculated the people that watched after the first night it went up to 20 million. I thought it would do well, but I'm surprised it's this successful. It's already surpassing the original. That's wild.

 

Yes, Daemon is fond of his niece and he sees her mettle but he’s not above using her either. If they follow the book this will get him into trouble with his brother once again, however…

Rhaenyra understood that her father would have to take another wife but I do think she left the small council meeting after Corlys because she viewed her good friend Alicent as having betrayed her by not telling her beforehand that she had been seeing her father. I think that would have upset anyone. Doesn’t that seem to be the way at court that no one tells anyone about anything. Even between father and daughter, close friends or relatives. No one likes being surprised publically, especially if it’s bad news. Sad.

As much as I like the Starks, this is going to be much better because as you’ve often said, we have a completed story by Martin so no need for guess work. There’s a lot of holes in the origin story of the Starks and their relationship to the entities beyond the Wall because Martin, for whatever reason, hasn’t finished writing it.

I’m glad that the viewing audience for House was so large. Shows we’re not the only ones who find the Targs fascinating.

 

This is pure speculation on my part built on the way I've seen them lay out the characters so far but....

I'm glad to see the Starks on the backburner now. If we're going to have more on them in a primary role in other series they need to let even more time pass. House of the Dragon too is demonstrating that the Targaryens are the primary House in this whole saga. In some ways that makes GOT smaller, which I think helps the franchise long term.

Their success here even opens up the possibility of a series on Old Valyria which, if done as well as HOTD, would be fun to see.

I heard where HBO Max online crashed for some on premiere night, and the full audience exceeded anything Game of Thrones ever did. This is surprising to me, after Season 8 of GOT. Like you said, a lot of people are interested in the Targaryens.

Now the question is, do we see Winds of Winter first, or Fire and Blood Book # 2. I'd put my money on the latter one.

 

I actually like that spoiler suggestion. It’s really the way things should have gone if not for the damnable misogyny of many of the Lords who would not accept a capable Queen. She could have kept him in check if that was the Lords concern. It’s funny but the Baratheons always seem to be willing to be the most ambitious houses side kicks…then and during GoTs. Loyal to your face and then stab you in the back.

Fire and Blood 2 will no doubt be first. Martin hasn’t had any show runners ruin the ending to that one so he’s probably more enthusiastic about the project.

GoTs had swerved so far away from the source material by the end of the show with questionable plot lines, missing characters etc. that I’m sure even Martin was vexed at the outcome. D & D had the audience and support but if they weren’t going to do it right they shouldn’t have gotten started in the first place. If it was a misguided attempt to hurry the author along with his writing they didn’t succeed. It’s gotten to the point that if Martin finishes HIS story at all he might very well end up dictating the text while on his death bed if he waits too much longer.

*Don’t forget Rings of Power will debut on Fri. Sept. 2nd on Prime. If you decide to watch, I’d love to hear your thoughts about it. I only wish they were going to air it after House winds up it’s season but I guess I can walk and chew gum at the same time, metaphorically, lol.

 

That's probably another factor in Martin's inability to finish Winds, a loss of enthusiasm. He had to really lose it in Season 5 when he saw how they made Dorne, such a formidable force in the books and the entire history of Westeros, suddenly look like a SNL skit. It blindsided me too because Oberyn had been played so well by Pedro Pascal.

I'm really not enthusiastic about the Jon Snow spinoff. I feel bad for Kit and how he feels his years playing the character were wasted, but unless they fix the ending of GOT, I don't want to just see the travels of him and Tormund. It'd be too bitter of a reminder of Season 8 every week. I think for the entire franchise it'd be better if that series gets shelved.

I probably won't watch Rings of Power for a couple of months, and do a binge then. They really timed their release poorly. They should've done it prior to House of the Dragon, or waited toward the end of the year.

 

I finally got to see the first 2 episodes yesterday with my sister and her husband . We all liked them. I was tempted to stay and watch third episode with brother in law but , because of sisters work schedule its on too late for her and we all want to watch it together. But we were mighty tempted to sneak watch it so that must show the episodes were good. I thought the first started out slow but the characters and setting needed to be setup.
Beforehand I had worried about Matt Smith because I had only seen him in Dr Who. I didnt know if I could accept whatever character he was playing and only see Dr Who but he did a really good job and I really didnt think of Dr Who at all. The other actors did good jobs too. I cant remember all the character names at this point. I didnt read the book. The scenery and all looks really good also; you can tell a lot of money and work went into it.
Like Stealth, I didnt like the prophecy about long winter reminding me about the horrible debacle with the GOT series and wondered if all that was in the book. In any event I thought they should have left it out. I was starting to enjoy the new series and they had to remind me of the destruction of that show which started out so well.

 

Oh I forgot , one of my other relatives refuses to watch the show until it is all over, not the first season but the whole show. Then if people say the entire thing was good, he says he may watch it. He was so disgusted by what happened with GOT that he says he is boycotting anything to do with it.

 

Good episode last night. I actually feel sorry for Viserys. I think he’s a good man who is allowing others to manipulate him to their own ends even though he doesn’t realize it. However, I presume it’s the job of the small council to give him advice which he will choose to accept or reject but it’s hard for him, or anyone for that matter, to discern the intent behind the advice.

I liked that he still stood behind his decision to make Rhaenyra his heir even though he now admits that his impetus was to block his brother’s ascension after his death, claiming that he never thought he would have another wife or a male heir. That’s kinda BS cause he knew he would be forced to remarry but now he sees what the results are for him personally. In fact, it’s driving him a bit “crazy”in the sense that it’s messing with him emotionally. You only have to watch his reaction to the Lannister suitor for Rhaenyra’s hand to see that. What’s bothering him so, as I see it, is that he still loves his first wife and wants to honor her by putting her child on the throne. Not a bad decision because he also loves his daughter and sees that she is well suited to the position despite the tradition of only males on the IT.

Alicent is a bit of an enigma. She likes her old friend but can’t seem to escape her father’s influence even though she might be closer to the king at this point than dad as Hand. I don’t think she’s in love with the king, although she doesn’t dislike him, and one word from her would send dad packing but perhaps she doesn’t feel she can undercut the man who she does love and who raised her. She also has to think of her son now. Tough spot to be in.

Rhaenyra has been a bit moody, understandably, seeing that she’s going to be married off and possibly lose her bid for the crown to her brother who is all of two years old. The scenes with Ser Cole were heart warming. “Do you want me to kill him?” re. The Lannister jerk even made her smile.

Then there’s good ole Daemon. Fighting the Crabfeeder but getting nowhere. CF and his men retreat to the caves where dragon fire can’t reach them when they are assaulted. Only when a message comes from his brother that he’s sending aid does Daemon get his ass in gear and go for broke. That’s why he beat up the messenger. He DID NOT want to be perceived as having to be rescued by Visarys which would have put a big L on his forehead. And Daemon provoked is a sight to behold. He almost single handedly (with some assist by Caraxes and Corlys & Co.) finally eliminates his foe and wins the day for Westeros….NO help from the King needed, thank you very much.

*correction- while I’m sure Caraxes was near his rider it was Laenor Valaryon who came to the assist on his own dragon Seasmoke. While the Older Valaryon men might have mastered the seas, young Laenor is half Targ. Looks like mom must have put a dragon egg in her son’s crib.

 

Really enjoying this show and it has gotten me right back into the Game of Thrones world.

By the way if any of you are interested in the Targaryen family tree and how the characters we are seeing in House of Dragons connect to Daenarys here is a video which goes through that. THere are obviously spoilers inside the video so if you don't want to know future content that this show has a good chance of doing you might not want to click on it.

 

A good history lesson but not very relevant to this particular story line. Fun never the less and a reminder that this story is NOT the beginning of the end to the Targaryen dynasty just a bloody hiccup.

 

Matt Smith was the one thing that I was worried most about with this series too, but he's won me over. Wait until you see the third episode. He shows that he definitely can fill the role of a fighter in it as well. Good casting.