Really. I know some on the forum have been very callous about this. But man, I would have to hope that if it were reality people would not lose their compassion so easily. I agree with Dale. He was getting a bit annoying, but to me, was right. And Carl is the perfect mirror of what's been happening. They have been chipping away at their humanity bit by bit, and Carl is the test case. He's still too young to have much in the way of a cemented morality from his past life, and is quickly becoming what the group is making him. A barbaric animal. (and a bit of an ass) I also agree with Dale that if that's what becomes of the world, I wouldn't want to live in it.

 

I LOVED Dale! Loved his comic character AND his TV character!! Dale was, for all intents and purposes, the groups morality and conscious... Always has been! His demise was clearly the symbolic death of humanity—as confirmed by Nicotero—Dale was "Piggy" from Lord of the Flies. My hope is that Hershel Greene, whom I LOVE as well, will now fill that void and find some of his lost faith.

It was incredibly devestating to watch as Dale raised his head to the barrel of the gun... :zombies_nosmile:

 

Hawaiian Shirt Zombie, thanks for reminding me of the Piggy comment. That was a perfect analogy by Nicotero. And viewing the show as The Lord of the Flies with adults is really a great way of seeing it. Even if this episode turned my stomach a bit, I thought the writing and acting were fabulous. It was a step above intellectually I think. And yes, Dale lifting his head to the gun was heart breaking.

 

Your comment about Carl is spot on. Excellent. I was thinking the same thing. Carl has grown up tremedously in the last three weeks. His Dad died, they ran from zombies, he's seen death literally EVERYWHERE, Dad returns, they had to escape the burning CDC, then the Zombie herd, the fear for his only friend Sophia, getting shot himself and almost dying, only to survive and learn Sophia is a zombie and then watching his Dad shoot her in the head.

I'm not surprised at all that he's growing callous and hard. Rick and Lori are trying to keep him out of the rough stuff, but they can't. Personaly, I think he SHOULD have been included in the discussion in the living room. Then perhaps he could have seen how agonizing the decision was, how fractured they all are. Instead, all he saw was his Dad getting ready to dispose of a threat.

 

Maggie, I agree. They have given Carl a gun, but don't trust him to be informed about life and death issues? That seems a little backward to me. Plus, Rick asked him to think, then takes him out of a situation that may actually afford him that opportunity. But I loved the scene where Carl walks into the barn and Rick bails on the murder of Randall. It wasn't about Carl seeing bloodshed. It was about how Carl saw Rick and how Rick did not like what was becoming of Carl.

 

In the death sceen what stood out for me was Daryl saying "sorry brother" as much as he tries to distance himself and act the loner, he has grown attached to members of the group and when it comes down to having to put down one of your own it shows he does care. He could have just said sorry..but saying sorry brother puts a deeper meaning and more evolution in Daryls character.

 

I agree too SS.

From the time he listened to Carol and came into the living room during Randal Discussion #1, to his involvment and willingness to do the 'dirty work' of findout what Randall knows, to his ultimate act of bravery and compassion in pulling the walker off of Dale and then stepping up to do what needs to be done to put Dale out of his misery.... Darryl has shown himself to be self-reliant and yet compassionate, a member of the group but only on his terms.

Darryl more than any other member of the group, does not suffer fools gladly.

 

Maggie, I agree with what you said about Carl. When I was watching the episode and Lori told him to go with Jimmy because he couldn't be part of the discussion, I thought that was a big mistake. He is still a memeber of the group and should have been included on the discussion. He should have heard Dale say that a person's life is worth (more than a 5 min. discussion) something.

 

12 is the new 20.

Lori and Rick better wake the F up.

 

Dale's point was that if he has to turn off his brain to being humane to survive, he doesn't want to live. He sees what turning off that switch has done to Shane, and once you turn the switch off, you DON'T turn it back on. If you ever turn it back on, you wind up having to deal with what you did while it was off. Dale wanted to survive, but not if it mean he had to change his views about killing innocent (in his mind, and I agree) LIVING people. Not sure if I think that Dale would pull the trigger on someone who was about to shoot him (if they happened to come across that other group), but I'd like to think he would.

 

Dale was right, but the keeping randal alive is a very tough decision.
We cannot rely neither can we keep a possible threat alive nor should we kill a human.
The only intermediate solution is to keep Randal as a Slave, with someone pointing a gun at Randal 24x7 and blew his head as soon as he do a single suspicious act.

 

That is really better and more humane than just killing him? He's a POW?

 

I don't think this was a symbolization of the death of humanity. I think first it was meant to give the survivors a wake up call. They are not safe. They shouldn't be acting like they are safe because this is what happens.

I also believe that the reason for killing of Dale was meant to give the other members of the group a chance to grow up. With ''Daddy'' Dale no longer around to chastise them into being moral they have to do it themselves. Which helps the characters grow.

 

I was heartbroken in the scene with Dale.

 

I agree and the Character is so well played as the Group is broken so is Daryl.
The question is will he and they get fixed and start to build a future or will it just be one folly inspired episode after an other?

 

Yes I agree.
But above all else question him in every none violent way untill he has given you every last detail he knows about the other group. Rick and Shane do good cop bad cop, Dale and Herschel do avuncular the young boys do matey the woman seduce, cajole and hector. BUT YOU GET THE FACTS BEFORE YOU KILL and you get them early. This lot waste a week then use sadism forcing their own hand.

 

My 12 year old and I love this show. We almost always watch the new episodes together. When we watched this last one, we both teared up when Dale died. It was sad but because of real life, it had to happen.

 

Umm, actually, the Director of The Walking Dead, Greg Nicotero, said that was EXACTLY the symbolization. The entire episode was nothing more than an abridged version of a classic piece of literature called "Lord of the Flies" and may as well have been titled “The Death of Humanity.” You aren't debating MY opinion sir, but the directors. I'm just reiterating what the man said.