He's outnumbered at this point, so he has no other choice but to change. Anyway, it's funny watching Rick give him the cold shoulder.

 

They need to shoot him and cut out his tongue, and then shoot his tongue. Maybe also shave off that ridiculous beard, Gabe' would look great with a pornstache.

 

Redeemed or not I would like to see them explore his character a bit more simply because as an actor Seth Gilliam is great fun to watch!

 

We had people over during the premiere and I seemed to miss the fact that Glenn was keeping Nicholas' betrayal a secret, and therefore Rick didn't know about it. We rewatched it last night so that storyline makes more sense to me now. I still don't really understand how he could trust Carter so easily after what he had done. I'm kind of going to chalk the whole thing up to a casualty of the black and white back and forth though, because just getting snippets of what was going on didn't really give a strong enough feeling of his character either way. I understand not killing him on the spot, but I certainly wouldn't expect Rick to make Carter one of the main members of the herd group and trust him with the safety of himself and others. If anything, I would think they would finally use that holding cell until Rick and Deanna decided what to do with him (likely exile). I do agree that Rick knew that Carter would die on his own anyway, and I did expect him to make it longer than one episode so I guess it doesn't really matter now that he's dead.

FG is definitely a traitor, and I agree that his betrayal is more personal to Rick.

 

I think its Father Gabriel that's blowing the horn.

 

That was a chilling thing to read. It made me realize how truly I think there is no bottom to FG's indifference to injuring others. Then I thought, No, because it would take away his own safe haven. Then I thought, what of that, he's teetering on suicide anyway. Sure he would take others down with him.

I don't seriously think it will turn out to be FG, but that was still a shocking evil to consider.

 

Since its Father Gabriel I'd wouldnt say he's changed . I would say he's altared.

 

Rick has turned down his help at every turn, and with good reason.

Theory on Gabriel development. Includes HUGE SPOILERS Huge MSF. Tread lightly.

 

Yeah, I certainly don't think he actually trusted Carter, I'm just surprised he trusted him enough to help with the walker herd. We've seen that the Alexandrites are only out for themselves (Aiden and Nicholas, the construction crew), and their inexperience and recklessness makes them liabilities to themselves and those around them. You know I'm always Team Rick, so I have faith that he knew exactly what he was doing I guess I just wanted to see Carter receive more of a punishment (before his death, of course) for his actions.

 

Haven't been here for a while so hi everyone

As for dear ol' Gabe, god, I wanted to kick his ratty little ass so hard last season for snitching to Deanna, but I'm kinda sorta thinking he might be turning a new leaf? Dunno, I felt that scene in the church with Maggie and Sasha really did some good. Or I'm hoping at least. Anyways, Rick totally ignoring him is just the place where he should be right now so I'm ok with that. But one mistake and he's toast.

 

I like this!

 

Yeah, I agree with you there. It doesn't make sense that Carter would be part of the herd group. Rick felt it was necessary to isolate Morgan for a bit, but not Carter?

 

I've said this before, but for me one of the most fascinating aspects in the show is the struggle between what a character is willing to do to live and what that character can live with having done. I've disliked Gabriel as much as the next person while also finding him one of the most compelling demonstrations of that struggle. Ironically, Gabriel is a survivor- he just hasn't been able to deal with it. His problem so far has been that he's entirely consumed by his guilt. While it's hard to argue that he shouldn't be, he does stupid things because he isn't thinking straight- not because he's malicious or actually stupid. He's been in a very dangerous and destructive headspace. It seems that he might be getting his shit together now, but we'll see. I would like for them to do something interesting with his character, because his actor is really good.

 

Very good points. I dont think Gabriel is 'pure evil' either. You've spelled it out very well here. His struggle is just as real as Rick's and Abe's and Sasha's. I also want to see them really explore his character even more, but not in a really cheap, superficial 'Im gonna redeem myself now' sort of way. It'll be too easy and even boring if they just make him up and redeem himself and everybody's friends then. He's probably gonna have to live with the fact that he cant redeem himself even if he does something that saves someone else's life. He's basically useless to the group, really, and they keep him around. Its fascinating! He's not my favourite :zombies_rolleyes: character but it'd be nice to see them really explore his struggle, (non)redemption and his relationship with the rest of the group. I like how Rick treats him indifferently, thats funny.

 

Deanna's way:

Rick was in a fight, pointing a gun (well, gesturing with a gun, not really threatening anyone in particular with it.. more like "stay away from me"), he is subdued and put in "jail", and there is a meeting about potential expulsion. resembles modern court system

Rick's way:

Spencer is about to shoot someone for nothing (being in the wrong place at the wrong time).. and nothing happens to him at all, except getting the same treatment back. Eye for an eye

The problem with the modern court system is everyone has to respect it. There has to be an actual jail, actual courts, ways of enforcing the rules. Simply expelling people.. that's a good way to make enemies who will come back and kill you all!

The ZA essentially has created a war zone. Anyone that is not in your group is a potential enemy, and groups are exceedingly small, so a modern criminal justice system cannot flourish, unless you can give up 10% of your labor force to act as prison guards. This society doesn't have enough assets to support a prison, so justice must be carried out swiftly with no lingering debt or danger (for the residents).

Modern criminal justice was only possible because of historic strong-arming militaries. Public hangings, strong Church presence, etc. etc. These were all in place and gradually began to get the general population to respect and conform to society's rules. Rick and his group understand that society is truly defunct, and therefore do not, and can not respect Deanna's play-house rules.

Deanna suddenly had the heart-stopping realization that society IS TRULY GONE when someone simply comes up and kills her husband. She probably thought for a split second.. "911". As soon as she realizes there is no one "out there" to help, and it means they either start a prison in earnest or do away with the threat, we see her decision. eye for an eye Deanna is learning.

 

I think Gabriel has to come to terms with the new world. When he does, he'll be a good guy and an asset. We see ALOT of people going through tough times trying to acclimate.. his just seems worse because we have put an expectation on him that he is a "Godly" man that is above many of the poor decisions a regular character might make. Nicholas did even worse when he shot Glenn.

Gabriel never should have been put in the pulpit so quickly after coming to the city. He needed some time to work things out for himself.

 

This is very well articulated. The ZA is not for everyone, FG listened to his whole church membership die a horrible death while he sat self-barricaded in his curch and then spent a considerable amount of time completely alone in the ZA. In some ways his character is similar to Morgan, but morgan chose to stay alone to process his fear and greif. FG realized alone he was going to die. His instint is to survive but his mind is broken by fear and greif. He is trying to process this while functioning in a group of which he has no skills to offer in a world he has not yet had the strength to accept.

Maggie extended a hand and if he lets go one way or another he'll be finished. He has to choose if he wants to survive this world and join the group or die. Until he makes that choice he is a danger to everyone around him.