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Honoring Glenn

Discussion in 'Episode 812 - The Key' started by GrungeMan, Mar 19, 2018.

  1. GrungeMan

    GrungeMan Active Member

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    Michonne was perfect this episode. She truly has a commitment to and shares Carl's vision for what comes after. Michonne has always been the cautious optimist and this meshes well with Carl's dying wishes..

    However, does anyone else here feel like Maggie had had plenty of on screen moral dilemma's to takle and tough calls to make and yet constantly neglects to mention (or at least subtly reflect on) Glenn?

    - Letting Gregory back into Hilltop
    - Housing the captured Saviors
    - Meeting Georgie

    I am fully aware that she is her own woman and doesn't always need to refer to her dead husband's outlook on life to make a decision, but c'monnnnn...

    These are all situations in which someone is always playing devil's advocate with her (Enid, Jesus, Michonne) and yet not one (or Maggie herself) stops to think about what Glenn would have done or his opinion??

    I mean seriously, being an altruist was Glenn's thing.. It's not like him or his beliefs are irrelevant to these issues.

    This goes back to my previous gripe about characters being treated like after thoughts following their deaths.
     
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  2. HonestAbe

    HonestAbe Active Member

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    I actually thought that Maggie was going to say something about Glenn when Michonne was talking about Carl and his vision on things. When she didn’t I was a little surprised because I thought it would have been a great opportunity for his memory to pop up in a way that felt fitting and normal, rather than he writers trying to squeeze something additional in about him. Hershel too... he and Glenn were both so morally driven in the middle of all the craziness they are forced to live in. And I agree that Maggie can’t dwell on her dead loved ones forever and her decisions should ultimately be her own, but they were both huge parts of her life in the best of ways. I would think the show would speak of Glenn, especially, more than they have.
    And second, slightly off topic... how far along is Maggie’s pregnancy supposed to be? Because I feel like there should be some indication that she’s pregnant by now...
     
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  3. Lori Grimes

    Lori Grimes Active Member

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    I was getting bored with Maggie standing in the background shooting everyone dirty looks all the time. I am also thinking about whether she secretly lost the baby or something? I just figured we would be able to see evidence of her pregnancy by now...And I agree with the other comments, no one's saying she needs to reference Glenn but there have been a few things she has done where I thought the writers might milk the sentimentality just a little more.
     
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  4. Jen7

    Jen7 Well-Known Member

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    Well she didn't mention his name, but when she and Rosita were up on the wall, and Rosita said something about how it will be difficult after it's all over and everything gets quiet, Maggie said "Not for me, if Negan is dead..." I took that as being related to Glenn in an obscure way.
     
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  5. Jag

    Jag Well-Known Member

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    Rosita also said the same for her giving homage to Abe as well.




    As to Maggie being pregnant I read she is only about the end of the third trimester of the pregnancy... so what? about 3 months? Do women show around that time?
     
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  6. Jen7

    Jen7 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I forgot to mention Rosita too...they had sort of an unspoken understanding.

    That would be the first trimester and most women don't start showing yet...especially not during a first pregnancy. If anything it would look like she ate too much for lunch...just a little teeny barely noticeable bump.
     
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  7. Jag

    Jag Well-Known Member

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    Oops I meant first not third hahaha she'd have the baby at the end of the third:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::oops:

    So you're saying I could be at the end of my first trimester?!?!;):D:eek:
     
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  8. Jen7

    Jen7 Well-Known Member

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    What are you going to name your food baby? lmao
     
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  9. Jag

    Jag Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm good question (trying to think of a good food pun but drawing a blank)..
     
  10. Jen7

    Jen7 Well-Known Member

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    How about...

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. GrungeMan

    GrungeMan Active Member

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    True, but I imagine she is referencing making peace with her grief/vengence after war time with the death of Negan. Negan is the primary shout out and Glenn is, at best, an indirect relation to the conversation, even though he's the source of said grief/vengence.

    I suppose it counts, but I am just saying there are more relevant instances to invoke Glenn that have come up surprisingly often enough, yet the show fails to write in Maggie's reflection of him into the most obvious conversations.

    The convo with Rosita is an understandable reference, but odd choice given so many other scenes Maggie had this season.

    Hershel too. As @HonestAbe said, he was quite the altruist as well. Then again, Maggie completely forgot she had a sister until her corpse was brought out to her, so she could just be an "out of sight, out of mind" kind of person...

     
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  12. Jen7

    Jen7 Well-Known Member

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    I see what you're saying. I guess for me, a lot of things have to be implied because with new deaths (like Carl) and with so much going on in the story right now, we have to assume that Glenn is still a huge influence for Maggie even if we don't hear her say it. I think her big speech where she talked about Glenn & Hershel was to convey that point...

    Lately though, Maggie has had to make some really difficult decisions...like the one she made to shoot the savior prisoner in front of the others. It's not something Glenn would have necessarily done, so she may be struggling internally with what she should do as a leader, and what the morally correct thing is to do. Maybe she is pushing Glenn away for a bit, figuratively, so she can do what she feels she needs to do without being weighed down with a guilty conscience or feel like she would be letting him down. I mean you can see the struggle when she first tells the saviors they are cut off from rations, and then she comes back and says they can come out for exercise. Then she plans to take all of Georgie's things, but after a little talk from Michonne decides to take them up on their offer. Maybe the less we hear her speak of Glenn, the less influence he has on her decisions at the moment? Let's face it, the guy was basically a saint. :p
     
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  13. Sully

    Sully Active Member

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    They're grieving in different ways.

    Michonne is grieving by reflecting in Carl's last words and what he meant and how to live by them and for him.

    Maggie I think is grieving in more of a denial and reject way, where she is so focused and engaged in this revenge that she's trying not to think about Glenn's death. She is fighting for Glenn, but is so focused and preoccupied doing that she's actually not thinking about how Glenn would handle it.

    It's really quite fascinating the way the two react, because it's realistic. We all deal with grief in different ways. I do think Maggie will have a come to moment about it eventually. Probably when Rick wants to keep Negan alive and Maggie wants to smash his head with a baseball bat instead.
     
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  14. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    Learning (on Talking Dead) that it was Glenn's lighter that Rick used to light up Lucille made me relish Rick's crazed bat swinging.
     
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  15. GrungeMan

    GrungeMan Active Member

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    Possibly. I can see this, but it still doesn't seem to make sense to speak sparsely about Glenn, just like it didnt make sense when she forgot Beth was her sister haha.

    My overarching concern is that there is subtlety and then there is viewer speculation. I don't think things need to be spelled out (at all), but I don't think the onus should be on the viewers to do their best guesswork as to how characters think and feel. The latter is a main issue of the show, in my opinion and reflects the weaknesses of some of the show's writing sometimes.

    I just think the show relies too much on a "things best left unsaid approach" way too often, to the point that we have to share with each other what we think each character is feeling emotionally (e.g. Maggie might be grieving in the manner you say, but who knows!). That, to me, just reflects cryptic dialogue and missed chances for characters to have emotionally powerful exchanges, especially about things we onviously want them to talk about (like lossed loved ones).
     
  16. Sully

    Sully Active Member

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    I can agree with this. I feel most of my posts here in these sections are interpreting things on the show that were left open ended that others are confused on.

    But I don't mind it. It actually is fun as a viewer to fill in the pieces. It's hard to find that gap between that and pure simplicity where everything is spelled out in crayon for the dull minded viewers.

    I think in this world it makes sense to have lot of open ended things like this. I think also because the characters are experiencing something that most of as aren't, extreme never ending trauma and grief. And I think that alone is one of the show's greatest strength, portraying that and developing strong characters.
     
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  17. GrungeMan

    GrungeMan Active Member

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    Agreed. It's tough to find that sweet spot and it's always going to be different for each character and where on that spectrum they should be in a given situation.

    You're right, the zombie apocalypse is very traumatic for our heroes, but while I expect some of them to be hardened, withdrawn even (which as much as I dislike it, I think the show is trying to portray Carol as withdrawn and emotionally distant... I think?) - I still expect them to have some semblance of the emotions that allow us to connect with them. Normally I would be fine with a nice mix of subtly (head nods, glances, grunts, whatever haha) and some emotional breakdowns, but the show has just kind of slid into this comfortable zone of mostly relying on the former. Which has really bothered me.

    Rick can't be the only character to bust out his ugly cry, dammit! :D:p
     
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