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I don't even care anymore... do you?

Discussion in 'Episode 207 - Shiva' started by Poppy, May 23, 2016.

  1. Zombiekaaner

    Zombiekaaner Member

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    He did. Hence the infamous "Stuff and Thangs" which has inspired a zillion memes. Rick was outside the wire, talking to invisible Laurie, when Herschel asked what he was doing and he replied "stuff and thangs". He was answering a disconnected phone, talking to dead people, and was screaming at dead Laurie on the catwalk when deciding whether or not Tyreese and Saha's people could stay.(Which is why they ended up in Woodbury and told The Gov that the prison was run by a crazy guy. A factor which contributed to the woodbury war.) So not only DID Rick "lose focus" his breakdown ultimately led to the deaths of the entire Woodbury army, Tara's family, the second camp the governor took over, the fall of the prison, Herschel and Beth's death, etc... Remember - if the governor had dealt with a reasonable and rational counterpart, we wouldn't have had the Woodbury War... Ricks nuttiness caused the prison to fall, taking them into contact with the termites, the claimers, the cross cops. etc....
     
    #61 Zombiekaaner, May 25, 2016
    Last edited: May 25, 2016
  2. JEA13

    JEA13 Well-Known Member

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    Even worse than talking to dead people on a disconnected phone is that Rick actually wrote a check to pay the phone bill.
     
  3. Poppy

    Poppy Member

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    Zombiekaaner,
    all you said about Rick is true.

    I wasn't denying that. My response was to this question by Spyder "To be fair, if Rick lost Lori during Season 1 don't you think he'd lose it to?"

    ---------------------------------------
    I don't recall what season it was that he lost Lori, but in real time it was about 9-10 months into the ZA (she had just given birth).

    In other words it took him time to unravel.

    Daniel, went koo-koo in a couple of days.
    It's a shame because I liked his character.
     
  4. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    rotflmao
     
  5. Spidey

    Spidey Active Member

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    What if Rick grew up killing people as a child and then lost Lori a week into the apocalypse? The main factor here is that people who kill as a child I think are going to be more unstable than those who do not. I do wish they didn't take this direction, but I just don't think Rick is a fair way to compare things, who for as we understand had a great childhood and it's not fair to compare Daniel to someone like that.
     
  6. Poppy

    Poppy Member

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    Spidey,
    I am a little unclear.

    It seems now, that you are more concerned that I compared time lines between Rick and Daniel, than about the fact that Daniel went fruit loops. So let's forget about Rick.

    Daniel looks to be in his fifties. As far as we could see, he pretty much had his sh## together. Although when still on the boat, we knew that he was haunted by his past, and maybe not as stable as we thought.

    BUT... he is in his fifties! He has had to have been living with these thoughts for about 40 years.
    OK... so we learn from Ophelia, when she is praying to her mom, that the mother helped to hold him together all these years. I suppose that the loss of his confidant, of all these years, may have been what put him over the edge. He couldn't REALLY talk with Ophelia, because she was still being judgmental.

    I don't know enough psychology, but as a child murderer, raised in a hostile environment, he could more easily be morphed into a psychopathic killer, than a child who was raised in a caring loving household. I would believe that as he was torturing people he would have learned coping skills, or died crazy years ago.

    So... I guess we'll see how this plays out. As I said before, I hope that he comes back, with is faculties intact. I liked his character. But otherwise as a broken man, I don't think I would want to see him come back.
     
  7. Zombiekaaner

    Zombiekaaner Member

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    This might be a bit controversial - but I would not consider what Daniel did to be "murder" or even "wrong". He was a soldier. A patriot fighting for his country. Based on the uniforms in his flashback, and his descriptions of "which man he was" Daniel Salazar was a member of the Salvadoran military - which was the "right side". The legitimate govt, supported by the US, Isreal, and Taiwan. The enemy was a communist revolution called FMLN, which was supported by the Soviets, Cuba, China, Nicaragua, and Bulgaria. He was a boy, and then a man, fighting to keep the red menace at bay in a country torn by twelve long bloody years of civil war. The irony is we judge him as a torturer - and we probably trained him how to do it. For decades we ran a school at Ft Benning where we trained Latin America torturers, death squads and assassins. It was called "The School of the Americas" and someone with the backstory of the Daniel Salazar character is probably an alumni. (Its still there by the way but they renamed it because of the negative publicity it got... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Hemisphere_Institute_for_Security_Cooperation )
     
    #67 Zombiekaaner, May 27, 2016
    Last edited: May 27, 2016
  8. Poppy

    Poppy Member

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    I liked his character. He did what he did, but felt badly about it.
    "Two men walk into a room. One walks out, neither is the same ever again"

    We get the sense that he did not enjoy what he did, like a sociopath would, but rather, did it to protect his family.
     
  9. Marc

    Marc Well-Known Member

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    What happended to Daniel is pretty much what the TWD writers did to Carol. "Suddenly they torn PTSD!"
     
  10. bassetluv

    bassetluv Active Member

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    I certainly don't hate Fear the Walking Dead, but...it isn't holding my interest the way TWD and Preacher are. I'll watch the upcoming episodes, but unless something changes, I suspect it'll soon fall into my category of "meh, if I miss an episode, I miss it" (which usually transgresses into "no longer care to watch"). TWD and Preacher, however, are my "MUST SEE TV" category right now. (Okay, TWD has been extremely violent for some time now according to my standards, and that violence has escalated so much I recently contemplated dropping it, but...I just...can't...)
     
  11. rabscuttle1

    rabscuttle1 Well-Known Member

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    I dig the show. But I also dig most things zombie related.
     
  12. PepperAnn

    PepperAnn Well-Known Member

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    I'm at the point now where I'm hopeful again. Enough time has passed and the storylines have changed enough to where I am hoping the things that bugged me in the first half will be gone now.
     
  13. Dnae

    Dnae Well-Known Member

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    I enjoy the show. Am I as invested in this show as I am TWD? Nope. But then again, it was the latter episodes of season 2 (specifically Nebraska) that I crossed the line from really enjoying TWD into REALLY loving TWD and developing a strong "bond" with Rick and Glenn. With that in mind, I have hope that much will be the same for FTWD. Of all the characters on the show Nick is by far my favorite and I think that (based on the trailer) that he will continue to be the one that means the most to me. I do think that our once upon a time in the background kind of gal is going to have this big fat hungry caterpillar moment in the back half of this season. Again, based on the trailer it seems that Alicia is going to find her worth in this world and become a force to be reckoned with.
     
  14. PepperAnn

    PepperAnn Well-Known Member

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    100% agree. Nick is the show for me. With Strand and Salazar coming in a close second. God I hope they don't wait too long before bringing him back.
     
  15. fylimar

    fylimar Active Member

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    I just watched the episodes and I still like Strand and Nick. Those characters are the reasons, I still watch. I can't bring myself to care for Madison or Chris and I'm sad, Salazar is dead, but I hope, they will introduce some more characters liek Strands boyfriend Abigail. He was an interesting character, one, I would have liked to see more of.
    And I liked the community around Celia. I guess, it's only natural, that some people start to 'worship' (for a lack of better word) the walking dead. Celia and her lackeys showed that more creepy side. Hershel and his family were much more sane with their 'personal walker'. Celia made some kind of religion out of it - and I'm pretty sure, something like that would happen very soon, should the dead really rise.
    So to sum it up: less Madison creepy mum and psycho Chris and more Strand and Nick and we're good.
     
  16. Balthazars

    Balthazars Member

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    I have to agree.im recovering from surgery and binge watching.

    Up to this point i agree.

    Its like they messed up by choosing and creating the wrong characters.the characters "bonding" during "tough" moments seems v contrived and forced....the constant spanish subtitkes are annoying...strand is just a totally unrealistic characyer v hard to like...tokenysm and ticking the boxes....daniel is probably the only one likeable...Ophelia 35 yr old virgin is a red shirt at best and why been killed ,speaks for the desperation of this show...the orange faces...the orange hue of everything...and annoying totally unlikeable characters like alicia,strand and hardfaced madison make this a gigantic fk up by the creators.... its basically a poor hispanic twd just repeating the old storylines with nothibg new or revelatory to add ....a pointless "remake"....would have been better off with a "british twd" remake
     
  17. Balthazars

    Balthazars Member

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    Overall nick is the only cool character...but his being tied to madisons apron strings is v v annoying
     
  18. Balthazars

    Balthazars Member

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    I concur a fresh start and rewrite seems appropriate.a new start with nick as the focus with a new cast.....these lot have failed inspire apathy
     

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