Hey I thank you too.
What she did was wrong, it was murder. She knows it, and she's gonna have to learn how to trust people and how to deal with her fear. Maybe Tyreese can help her with that.

 

lol...chill everyone makes mistakes. I'm glad she straightened that stuff out with Tyreese. At the end of the day, she did take it upon herself to serve as judge and jury and then executioner in a situation where these people may have recovered from the virus. Others did. I don't think he should have made her leave either. How could he justify his decision after his own son played judge, jury and executioner to the boy in the woods who was surrendering his weapon? Like I said, everyone makes mistakes. Let it go.

 

[MENTION=39001]HondaS2kXD[/MENTION] ^^ I think you've just been summoned.

 

Thank you. Now I have to get my serious face on. Here goes

 

Did you see the post I was referring to above about Carl taking out Jody? I know that is your specialty in regards to that incident.

 

yeah... No.

There is no way we can truly know what was going through Jody's mind when he died. (aside from Carl's bullet) but based on his actions both during the shooting and in the time leading up to it, we can make an educated guess. And every single thing points to jody being up to no good.

firstly, the time leading up to it. Let's start at Woodbury. Not in the s3 finale, but some time before it, the governor tells Martinez to make sure everyone has a sidearm. That right there tells me jody had at the very least a knife (more likely a handgun) which he either neglected to mention or deliberately hid from Carl and Hershel. That right there is evidence enough for me. But let's dig a bit deeper. As he tacticooled his way through the prison, his eyes don't show the fear and hesitation the others had. Even Alan seemed scared to be there. Not jody. He was at home in that moment-- ready to take he prison by force, perhaps even hoping to earn a spot on the governor's main army.

Much flashbangery and violence of action ensues. In the chaos, he gets separated from his group and runs off into the woods alone. He comes across an old man, a 13-year-old boy, and a girl holding only a baby. He has a choice to make: drop the gun, or make a move. His actions tell us which way he was leaning. Okay. Let's operate under the assumption that he was afraid if he dropped it it could go off. So he really wants to hand it over. The process is clear: point it straight up in the air, turn the safety on, take your finger off the trigger and your full control hand off the gun, then hand it over to carl by the forearm, all the while keeping it in a safe direction. He did the exact opposite of all those things. His finger was right by the trigger. The safety stayed off. And as he approached carl, the already precarious angle began to get narrower and narrower. He was swinging the gun towards Carl as he approached. That doesn't say, "I mean to surrender," to me. That says, "I mean to grab that silencer, brush your gun out of the way, then use you as a human shield while I kill the old man and the girl."

and then he we can look at carl himself. Did he genuinely feel threatened, or did he kill out of bloodlust? To get a simple answer, watch Clear. Even facing a living person, there is no hesitation. Acquire target. Aim. Fire. Split second. If he just wanted blood, Jody would have been dead before "drop" escaped Hershel's mouth. But he gave jody every chance. He fired only at the last second-- when he felt absolutely threatened. In my opinion, he hesitated too long. If you hesitate, you can freeze. Carl should have shot jody much faster. But he didn't. He fired only at the last possible second. He did what he had to do. Period.

 

Yeah. I was spinning up my rant. It's there now. Thanks.
i saw the post, and was like

 

Agreed. He should've dropped the gun. That blank look he gave them would be enough for anyone in that situation to shoot them dead to protect themselves.

 

I do hope that Rick dies a sad and memorable death, but i wanted it in the last episode of the penultimate season♪ (If TWD will have 10 seasons, then that means Rick will die in the season finale of season 9♪) His death scene will be the last scene of that season, and everyone from the group (especially the one who are close to Rick) will gather around him, listening to his last words♪ After he died, rays of light shone down on the earth after they were blocked by clouds♪ The episode ends with Beth and Carl holding hands and watch as the light bathe them♫

Season 10 will have a large time skip♫ (More than 2 years♪) A new threat arrives, and this season will be the end of TWD♪

 

Except....this is fiction, written by someone. And everything that the writers did with the scene indicates that what Carl did was considered to be murder by the group. It's why Hershel went to Rick and told him that Carl executed Jody. It's why Rick hung up his guns and started farming. It's why Rick took Carl's gun away, and is so careful for most of the season to try to give Carl back his childhood.

The way they wrote the scene and all the related scenes afterword were not at all ambiguous.

 

No, that was pretty much the most ambiguous thing they've ever done on the show. Like he said, he did what he had to do. And in that mini speech he raises some valid points-- if Rick had done what he needed to do, a lot of people would still be alive. The problem with Carl at that time was not that he shot jody. It was how little he was effected by shooting jody. THAT is what a lot of his development in season 4 is all about. Now he's developed his conscience and regained his humanity, but it's to the point where it is torturing him for even thinking about doing what needs to be done. It is all leading up to Rick and Carl's talk from issue 67-- where Rick discusses the differences between good and evil in this new world. What it comes down to is: they both have to do bad things to survive. But they are never easy for good men.

 

Carl is the only one who thought at the time that he 'did what he had to do' though. Hershel didn't. Rick didn't. Even season 4 Carl came to realize that there's a fine line, and he had crossed it with Jody. What Carl advocates in his speech is that you have to be the Governor, because that's what you're saying Rick should have done.

You're also mistaking what happens in the comic with what happens in the show. There is no issue 67 in the show.

 

Holy Moly

 

Hershel and Carl were the only two witnesses and Rick simply chose to believe hershel. What Carl was advocating in his speech is what should have been done. Andrew tried to kill Rick, but Rick let him live (accidentally, actually. He tried to feed him to walkers which I would argue is much more governor-esque than shooting people. Lol) and then he killed Lori and t-dog. If Rick had killed the governor in Arrow to the doorpost, yes, it would've been a tough call. But Andrea, Hershel, Merle, and countless redshirts would still be alive.

carl does realize that he crossed the line. But not with what he did. The reason he crossed the line was how easy it was for him to do it.

yes. Hershel thought carl made the wrong call. But Hershel and Rick both made the wrong call on the governor. And people died for it. Because Rick and Hershel were holding on to the old world. Morals are not what they used to be. They have to be capable of doing dificult things to survive in the world now. That's a truth which Rick unlocked and finally understood in 4b. He's not proud of what he had to do. He doesn't enjoy it like the governor did. But he understands it is what needed to be done. And I disagree. I think the discussion he had with michonne is the start of the resolution of that story arc for Carl: he has developed a strong conscience, but he needs to relearn that he's not a bad person for knowing what needs to be done. Which will likely be when he and Rick have the talk from 67.

 

I agree. Rick should die a slow, unforgiving, painful death. The group should make Carol the leader.

 

You're advocating killing people for what they might do, which is what the Governor did, and what all of the bad guys have done, including Shane. It's not who Rick is, and it's not who he wants his son to be, and it's not who any of the core group is, not even Carol. And it's not even who Carl wants to be - that was what his discussion with Michonne was all about. What would be the point of surviving if to do it you're no better than a walker, mindlessly killing?

 

You could say that about pretty much anyone on the show though, don't you think? We've gotten to the point where it's kill or be killed unfortunately, and to say that Rick and Carl's killings are anything like The Governors is incorrect IMO. Shane's.... maybe, besides trying to kill your best friend.

Rick's group never tortured anyone who did them wrong. Up until now the only thing that would come close would be him gutting that pervert who was trying to rape Carl. And I don't think anyone would compare that to the Gov's tortures.

That's the world they live in. There is no room for "let's just see where things go". It may not be who they want to be, but for now it's who they have to be.

 

Rick's group tortured Randall.


But , I do agree that this is the people they have to be now.
Plus , It's cool to see Rick finally being brutal on the show!:hatchet: