I was really trying to say that Jesus was acting differently towards them because he didn't have a gun. He still intended to take what they had regardless of how badly they needed it. And that somehow falls within the definition of what good people do.

 

So?

Jesus was a thief not a terrorist

His community needed the supplies just as badly as ASZ

 

Morgotha loves putting words in other people's mouths, and then fighting with those straw men lol. No one was saying being a thief is 'what good people do'. We just understand its not terrorism, like what the Saviors are doing.

 

Alternate hypothetical scenarios distract from the current discussion.

Daryl had two previous encounters with the Saviors and in both instances the Saviors were portrayed as extortionists and murderers.

Rick's group has made contact with the Hilltoppers. This means that news of their existence will get back to the Saviors. The Hilltoppers reported that the Saviors killed a 16yo just to make a point. They also required Proof of Death of Gregory in order to return a hostage.

Those are the facts that we have in front of us.

To be sure, discussion of real-world parallels may provide some value. But these "what-if" arguments are just plain dumb. If the King had t*ts, he'd be the Queen.

 

Well, either that or he has methadone induced gynecomastia.

This is assuming the * is meant to represent an i. If its an o, then he may have a family member who works at Ore-Ida.

 

Surprisingly, the site's filters will not allow tots to be spelled with an i.

 

Bewbz is the appropriate spelling.

 

You know that Jesus is a thief. You do not know if he's a "terrorist" or not, as he didn't have the ability to threaten them - but if he intended to steal their stuff, I don't see why he wouldn't threaten force to make sure he got it.

His community doesn't need supplies as badly as the ASZ or they wouldn't be trading supplies for violence.

 

Nope. If the King had tats he'd be Harold II.

 

True, but I've always heard that particular maxim using "t*ts", so I went with that.


Of course, it sounds better in the original Klingon.

 

Please explain...in your own words how Jesus is a terrorist. You keep bringing this up, so time to explain.

Yes his community does need supplies as badly, because if they don't get more supplies soon The Saviors have promised to teach hilltop a lesson.

"they wouldn't be trading supplies for violence."

they are trading with Rick's group for the left over supplies they have so they can stop dealing with terrorists.

Honestly...how is this show so hard to understand?

 

How is Jesus a thief? When he broke out of the prison, he had the opportunity to steal guns and leave without being noticed. Instead he stayed, apologized that they got off on the wrong foot and had a reasonably good discussion with Rick and co. Knowing this, why would anyone be characterizing Jesus as a thief?

 

I'm not even talking about Dwight. I was referring to the saviors. Daryl also met up with them too. First time being when shot at. Pre Dwight, then, when he was with Dwight. Then again, on the road with Abe and Sasha.
It would have been a matter of time, before the Savior's stumbled across the ASZ.

And I don't remember any mention of insulin mentioned when they met the bikers. And as you mentioned the wolves. They found the ASZ because of the backpack. Who's to say the saviors wouldn't be able to do the same.
With or without Jesus. EVENTUALLY, they would have crossed paths.
Can't blame this on Jesus at all.

 

Jesus had a gun when he broke out of the prison and was inspecting their guns.

 

A meat eater doesn't have to eat every piece of meat he finds. A numismatist doesn't add every dime to his collection. The Noid sometimes patronizes TGIF's.

 

Yes. Of course the Saviors would have crossed paths with Alexandria eventually. When it comes to the lives of our people, how silly it is to just assume there is no reason they will find us. Especially now that ASZ has a connection with Alexandria. Hilltop is now trading with ASZ, so they would have even less to give to the Saviors. How much interrogation would it take for some Hilltop member to break and say "ok, we are also trading with a new group". Then, boom its over. This isn't hard.

 

and the fact that Jesus brokered having ASZ to meet Hilltop? Jesus said he first thought they were bad people but then changed his mind.

 

But this is why Jesus is being blamed as a terrorist. She thinks they should have killed him over some now sunken supplies. Or left him tied up and become walker food.
I'm beginning to wonder what the real reason is, that he is unliked.

 

The evidence is stacked up and other posters have clarified as well, it's explicit and blatant and hypothetical alternate theories are going against what the writers are putting in as canon for the show. The Saviors are of the group that steals by using terrorism, extortion and murder - tactics that our group have experienced from them and Paula and the rest are in that group. So yes they were "scared hostile" running from Rick's group because of what happened that day, yes they were talking tough, the thing is given the circumstances we're not rationally going to give them any leniency on it.

In the real world terrorists can be scared, can gloat, can boast and play up their antics to try to throw off an enemy and still be everything as described.

A lot.

They're dead because Carol and Maggie outsmarted them and they made dumb decisions to allow that. That negates them being alter versions. Carol and Maggie definitely could see some parallels but they are far from being direct comparisons, which is what an alter version is.

Carol is going through a moral crisis, absolutely. I do know at least some of the reason Paula killed - her group uses extortion, terrorism and murder to steal resources from others. There are other reasons I am sure, but that's one of them and that's the important note of the discussion.

Yes, his decision was bad and callous towards her. Reactionary. But still, it was because he had the whole of the group in mind even if it was the wrong decision. We're again not debating the best tactics to deal with situations that arise, but we're debating good intentions vs. evil.

If the group operated like the Saviors they'd have just killed all of the sick people Carol style and wouldn't care about anybodies thoughts or feelings on the matter.

They're dead due to dumb moves and a lack of awareness and ability to read people.

If they weren't scared they'd have not sought out back up and a safe house to hide from Rick and wouldn't be worried about a prisoner exchange. They were 100% scared and rightfully so because they were dead people walking against Rick's group.

Well, the Saviors either are not as big and grand, or the main block of reinforcements was too far away. Either way they were 4 people with one severely injured with a heavily armed and combat specialized group in the immediate area after their heads. The prisoner exchange was the best bet.

They had to call in to remember where the safe house was, or what safe house to go to. And their back up signified limited reinforcements within a reasonable range and it's likely that the compound they lived at was the main compound for miles and miles.

Speculative, but it's judging from what we've seen and their actions.

They needed Carol and Maggie alive if they were to survive themselves and secondary - get Primo back.

Carol is hard to read at the moment. She was obviously psychologically working them by portraying herself to be weak and helpless, which the Saviors incorrectly read, which then would be fine to reveal things to get them worked up and discombobulated and/or sympathetic to her. But her intentions seemingly were not to kill them and just escape, so yeah that would not be wise to reveal anything.

Carol's a mess right now.

Primo could have been of some use, I'd have kept him alive to see if you could get info out of him, but I can't say I didn't enjoys seeing Rick just execute him at the drop of a hat. Ha ha.

Aaron was in the strike team. I haven't seen Eric but Aaron quickly realized that Rick's group's ways were necessary for ASZ's survival and he's fully integrated into them. So that question is answered on Aaron's part, Eric being his partner we don't know but likely is similar.

The remaining ASZ'ers got a hard dose of reality, if they feel discontent against Rick and think his presence brought this on them they are wrong. They were ill prepared and the Wolves, the Saviors and the Horde all could have found their way to ASZ prior to Rick's arrival and would have if not for it. They realize that and it's been shown this season that they do.

What points are hearsay and conclusion jumping?

That they use extortion, murder and terrorist tactics to impose their will and subjugate others? That they have displayed maniac members on screen?

That's all concrete fact.

That they tried to definitely kill Daryl, Abe and Sasha once, that they threatened a second time, that this aligns with Hill Top's story to the detail?

More fact.

Shut and closed discussion that they're the bad guys.

I agree on everything here. But you can only make decisions on what you have seen and what you can analyze from that.

I felt sympathy for Chelle, she seemed a grey character and just surviving with those assholes and I'm sure the Saviors are filled with that as much as they are maniacs. The Nazi army was filled with both bad people and a lot of good people but you still had to defend yourself because they still came in and wrought hell down on enemy territories for a malevolent purpose.

 

Neegan (from what I can tell) is a tyrant and a warlord akin to what we see now in Mexico, and South America, and in parts of the ME and some satellite nations. I do not disagree in the least with taking him down. If civilization - heck if even democracy has a shred of hope in this ZA - Neegan must be put down. I DO strongly disagree with the haphazard way it scheduled to go down. Rick/Maggie & Co. are going to cry some bitter tears when the Saviors regroup and hit hard.