I think the problem is that it could just be interpreted as her being a 'slut' by the casual fans who are too stupid to actually understand something so simple. Look ta Lori for example, the woman lost her husband and over time she eventually fell into the arms of a man who she had known for years and years, likely from high-school alone. This was someone she trusted and the world had literally fallen apart around them. Yet she's regarded as a cheap slut by the fan-base because god forbid if a woman has sex with more than one person.

 

If by "casual fans who are too stupid to actually understand something so simple", you mean "lonely loser boys who don't know how to relate to women in real life, and go on the internet to manifest their psychological melanomas", I agree with you.

 

Unfortunately, it seems that these 'loser boys' take up the majority of the fanbase because looking alone at Lori and Andrea and the fan reactions to their sexual activities, all of which were completely normal and healthy; I'd say that they're some of the most hated characters in television in the last few years. In-fact, people seem to hate the two characters far more than people like Shane, Gabriel and for some, even the Governor.

While most of the people on this forum have a far better variety of opinion than just the average Joe, there's still a huge chunk of the fanbase who despise female characters who have been with more than one partner on the show. I could at-least understand with Lori if she had continued sleeping with Shane but the moment Rick came back, she knew she'd screwed up and made sure everything with Shane came to a screeching halt. In response, this man almost raped her a room away from her son and yet people still called her a 'slut'.

Why, looking at the Lori threads on this forum alone where people seem much more sympathetic to her character, you can easily see hateful posts calling her all kinds of colourful words. Some users even took to nicknaming her "Whori" no different to how they took to insulting Laurie Holden for getting botox and called her "Mandrea" before claiming that she is 'hideous' and looks like a man.

 

No. Just, no.

On Lori, it's not that she had sex with thane in and of itself. It's that she did it less than a month after her husband had died. And if that were where lori's mahoosive character problems ended, it might be okay, but no. She continued to send mixed signals to Shane right up until she came out and told him that the baby might be his right before he tried to kill Rick. Also, the fact that she never had a clue where her son was most of the time doesn't help. But the cherry on top is probably how she all but told Rick, "hey, honey... You might have to kill Shane because he's f*cking insane..." And then Rick kills Shane and she's like, "ermagherd! Y U KIL SHAEN?!" It's just bullshit.



And then there's your Andrea. Actually, consistently sleeping with psychopaths is the LEAST of her problems. Though, personally, in an apocalypse, I'd probably want to know somebody for more than three days before banging them. And once I found out they were a psychopath hell-bent on killing all of my friends, I would probably stop sleeping with them, and hopefully kill them to save my friends. Beyond that, there is her stupid suicide arc which also gave her bitchy resting attitude (another forum member with a better way with words than I described it as a "perpetual sneer") for the rest of her life. She constantly acts like she knows better than everyone else, and yet nearly every decision she makes is effing stupid. She almost killed Daryl just to prove a point. But the unforgivable one is that her stupid optimistic approach of "saving everyone" is what allowed the governor to live. And that lead to MANY people dying.

 

She shot two Claimers: Tony and Harley. The Termite she beat down was Theresa. Also Crowley and Tim, two of the Governor's men who she told to go back. And there was one in Too Far Gone who i believe she killed when she was trying to break her bonds behind a vehicle. I don't think he likes her, either.

 

You can say "No" as many times as you like but it doesn't make your opinion any more valid than mine, so it's probably better not to waste your breath and spare those few seconds of your life.

The earliest indication of Lori sleeping with Shane is that it started not long before the sex scene because they were too goddamn shy to even kiss in front of anyone let alone Carl who was sorely needing a Father figure. Were the indications of her growing attached to him? Sure, you can look at the highway flashback as proof of that but unlike the comics which give a clear indication fo what happened; we can only assume it started later.

As for her giving 'mixed signals',I think it's about time the people glorifiying Shane and pretending he's a victim of her supposedly monstrous behaviour. Lori told him the moment Rick got back that what they had was going to end and that Carl needed his father. Him getting drunk, attempting to rape her and then giving her that ridiculous look for her wanting nothing to do with him is by no means receiving 'mixed signals'. Let's not also forget how the only times in S2A that she spoke to him were in times of great tragedy where she actually needed his help making sure that Carl or Rick's lives weren't in terrible danger.

The episode 'Better Angels' was the first time she truly went out on her own initiative to speak with him where there wasn't something else extremely important going on that could endanger not only Rick or Carl but herself or that of the group. That whole talk was meant to bring him back into the fold, yet he took it the exact opposite way. It was an apology and she even admitted that while she didn't know who the biological father was, the father was always going to be Rick. She made that point abundantly clear and yet he pressed on. When Shane died and Rick told her, and i don't know how closely you were watching since i remember quite clearly that she was shocked but not repulsed in any way by him telling her that. It was the moment that she told him that Carl "put him down" that she backed off. Clearly some people are too ignorant to even be able to assess or break down a two-minute scene.

Andrea? Shane and the Governor were very self explanatory. Shane had just given her everything she wanted by taking her out there. He was the only person in that group who didn't just ignore her or dismiss her as unstable and untrustworthy. Look at Lori's opinion of her, not to mention how Dale had treated her and how the rest of the group said barely two words to her in the meantime. One of the few good things that Shane did was actually give a damn about someone who was being pushed out the same way Daryl made himself after Sophia died.

Nitpicking over the suicide arc and blaming her being cocky on that makes zero sense and it was a vital part of her development in the show. Unlike Beth, who chose to get herself killed and seemingly had very little development from her suicide storyline; Andrea got up after a few episodes and decided that she wanted to live but on her own terms. You can't just have a character and up and decide to one day become a badass with nothing to motivate them and Andrea's view on that world along with the deaths of Amy, Sophia and Dale are what brought her where she was before she died.

She was cocky and fiery and very sensitive on matters of humanity and the treatment of women in that world. Anyone can see that and these things did cause her to make mistakes but in the long run, she was still one of the only people in the show during her time alive who wasn't living under a rock and knew how to handle the threats they were facing. Michonne, The Governor Daryl, Rick and Merle are some of the only other people who understood that. The key problem being that she clung to her humanity as Dale did his and she used him as an example of who she wanted to be in that world; psychopath or human being? It's possibly the biggest theme on this show and people who argue on the human characters and claiming that they're annoying for doing what's right are completely without wits.

Which brings me to the subject of the Governor, people fail to recognise that this man found her when she was deathly ill and soon to die, then brought her to a walled and safe community where she was nursed back to health and given an everyday life again. When Michonne abandoned her over suspicion without giving even the slightest bit of a convincing argument as to why Andrea should leave with her, she was humiliated at the gates and sounded like she was making things up just to get out of there to live in the woods with millions of dead corpses. Of-course we the viewers had more knowledge of the situation than most of the other characters so we knew that Michonne would eventually be proven correct. But that doesn't change the fact that she behaved terribly during her short stay in Woodbury. The Governor comforted Andrea when she was in a time of need and several days after being cured of her sickness, she started a relationship with the Governor who to the best of her knowledge was just a normal, charming man who had saved her life and been there for her when she was depressed. Does this make her a slut or show that her taste in men was terrible? No. It shows that unfortunately, even the good ones can turn out to be psychopaths.

If you're going to blame Andrea for the deaths of the people at the prison in S4, then you can blame Rick, Maggie, Merle and many more for the same thing. Using the 'chain reaction' method, we can determine that Rick is to blame for nearly every death in the series. Do i see you making that point? No, i see you fumbling for excuses to talk smack about a character who you clearly despise.

For someone who has such strong feelings about this show and the characters in it, perhaps you should actually pay attention to the characters, their motivations and the situations they are put in. Because clearly you seem to have just given up early on with the characters of Andrea and Lori because they weren't as badass as the other characters you love, namely Daryl and Michonne.

 

I should say the same.

i always understood the sex scene to be a flashback-- it happened at some point in time after they set up camp at the quarry-- sort of like it was in the comics.

"glorifying Shane?" Me? That'd be the day.

i can understand her wanting to bring him back into the fold, but there was NO need to tell him the baby might be his-- that would f*ck with the mind of even a rational-ish person, which Shane clearly wasn't.

It makes even less sense for it to be Carl having to put Shane down as what put her over the edge. Still. Rick did what needed to be done and then Carl saved him.

You don't get to attempt suicide and not expect people to treat you with just a tiny bit of caution.

i must've missed the part where I praised Beth's own stuipicide arc.

All im saying is, comic Andrea didn't have a suicidal arc, yet became awesome without one. And it's the beginning of TV andrea's departure from her epic comic self. Two plus two is four.

actualy, I'd say wanting to keep the governor alive is more like living under a rock, with your head up your ass.

I I can understand wanting to hold on to humanity, but this man was a f*ckin' psychopath, who had killed people already, tried to have Michonne killed, and planned to kill even more, if not all of them. I think the humane thing is to put the rabid dog down.

i can almost understand and/or put up with her falling for him at first. And even abandoning Michonne-- she did a poor job of proving her point that he was batshit crazy. But when she went back to Woodbury, that's where it ends.

on this point, I agree with you wholeheartedly. During Rick's Buddhist farmer phase, I was just as much if not more against him as I am Andrea. He should've shot his bitch ass in the face during Arrow On The Doorpost. I agree with both of Carl's monologues on the topic. The difference is, he eventually changed and became what he is now.

badassery has nothing to do with it. I liked Hershel and Dale. And my favorite character, Carl, didn't become badass for quite some time-- season 3 is the first time he even began to appear slightly badass. I like Eugene, and he didn't have a single badass moment until saving Tara. The reason I don't like Lori or Andrea has nothing to do with what they weren't. It has to do with what they were. I don't like Lori because she just doesn't interest me, and I didn't like Andrea because of her attitude, her arc, and various stupid things she did.

 

There was zero indication that the sex scene was a flashback. This is just reaching for a reason to dislike her character. I could understand feeling irritated by her character for going to Shane sometime between 30-60 days after Rick was said to have died but this is the apocalypse and unfortunately, people have needs. It's clear that she wasn't over Rick. Her first scene in the Atlanta camp made that very clear but it doesn't mean that she can't try and fill a little bit of that void, especially consideering the circumstances and how Shane had kept them alive for so long.

The mention of the baby was part of her admitting that she screwed up, unfortunately he took that in the worst way possible. It may have sounded a bit out of place but she had to try and repair what was going on between them and freezing him out or treating him like a monster wasn't the way to fix the problem. It wasn't the best thing to say by any means but it caught his attention and was meant in a completely different way than how he took it. It doesn't take a toddler to figure out why she said it which is why i've always found the 'mixed' signals argument incredibly weak.

Actually, Carl putting down Shane made a ton of sense and if you watch her reactions and the way it's played out closely; it's not hard to see that that is how the scene was meant to play out. She's a mother regardless of how poorly the TV writers had shown that but early on in the season i do believe she said the words: "and what if he survives and just becomes another monster" or something along the lines of that, excuse my poor paraphrasing. That was one of her biggest concerns and hearing from her husband who seems to share no issue with it, that Carl 'put him down' is horrific.

As for Andrea's suicide arc, you seem to be under the impression that following Andrea's comic story completely would have worked for television. Her character had very little development in the beginning and her turn into a badass needed some kind of driving point. Losing Amy might have been a good reason but unlike most i actually believe her suicide arc to have been one of the few things they did well with her character because it made her decide if she wants to live and how she wants to live. She stood up on her own two feet, learned how to use a gun and came into her own.

That's a far better development than just up and deciding to become a badass because you're in the apocalypse which is basically the bland, stereotypical story of every protagonist in stories like these. You can't just have a character undergo a change like comic Andrea's on a show, what works for a comic does not work for TV most of the time and that is exactly why so many characters have been changed from the source material. Unfortunately, some characters were changed 100% as opposed to filling in the gaps.

As for Beth i never once said you defended her arc or character. I was merely using a comparison for argument's sake.

As for the Governor, to be fair she did stop sleeping with him the moment she saw Penny and the rest. Yet the lies still kept coming out of his mouth. It's also easy to defend Rick's group and claim that they told her the truth but how was she to know what was what. From her viewpoint it was one's word against the other and Rick's group didn't even attempt to negotiate from the start. They just ran in and killed innocent civilians in a suprise attack to rescue a group member who to the best of her knowledge, was brought there by Merle and no-one else.

In fact, the moment she showed up at the prison, she tried to be honest and cooperative and yet they literally threw her against the fences violently and de-humanized her before denying her any kind of courtesy. One can argue how the group were seeing things but their treatment was still unwarranted. Suddenly one of them who is supposed to be the calm and quiet one suggests that she slit the Governor's throat, a man who so far has been very, very kind to her and saved her life no matter what potential lies he may be telling.

One thing many people tend to forget is that show-Andrea was a human-rights lawyer, her feelings on morality and humanity were known from the beginning and Dale only made that come out more. It's not easy to kill someone and especially not a man who yu had feelings for. Not to to mention the method she would be killing him, with a knife where she would feel every little twitch of his body as she did it. That wouldn't be easy by any standard.

So she opted for negotiating a way for both sides to stay happy and leave each other alone after being told to her face that she now has control of Woodbury and it's people by Phillip himself. Suddenly both sides are pushing her out and treating her like shit and when Hershel confronted her she made her choice to side with the group after all. But could she just go with them and never come back? No. Even Hershel, as old and wise as he was; knew that if she didn't get in that truck that he would have zero reason not to shoot them all where they stood.

 

Re: Lori, I wasn't suggesting that it happened a long time ago, just that it didn't happen exactly in the order they showed it to us. It made sense to me. And at any rate, NO way was it 60 days into the apocalypse that Rick woke up.

Her mentioning of the baby was still not a smart thing to say. Period.

Carl putting Shane down needed to happen. if she doesn't understand what it takes to be able to survive, that's on her.

Comic Andrea's arc made plenty of sense. She was naturally skilled with a gun (I've seen this happen plenty) and then slowly her skills and experiences turned her into a badass.

Suicide is just stupid. I hold a very (controversially so) low opinion of suicide. The ONLY suicidal character I can think of who I like is Martin Riggs from Lethal Weapon. And even in that case, I find that to be my least favorite thing about said character.

You misunderstand me: I UNDERSTAND she wanted to hang on to her humanity. I get it. I just find it f*cking stupid. I have no patience for those who would risk the lives of innocents to save the lives of psychopaths. I know people just like her. My aunt has said before in conversation that if somebody was to rape one of her daughters, she would hope to be able to forgive them. Me? F*ck. That. Shit. Me, personally, I believe in vengeance. When this group of white trash ****heads stole and burnt my brother's custom car, and the police did nothing, if I thought I could get away with it, I would've molotovved every car in their driveway. And maybe the house. I don't believe in giving dickheads a second chance. And the governor is, with no question, putting it mildly, a dickhead. He deserved to be FED to his daughter. There is NO excuse for a character who, knowing what she did, would stand there over him with that knife, and not slit his throat f*cking diagonally. F*cking period.




The simple fact is, you and I may agree on a number of things, but these two characters will never be among them.

 

^ MFW TGO and Honda are bitching at each other
[video=youtube;-5pOZhKX0KU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5pOZhKX0KU[/video]

 

I'm only going to address two points you made since i've asnwered the rest in previous posts that you seem to have overlooked.

In regards to the 60 days argument, it may just be the biggest plot hole in the show as the characters mentioned in season one that it had been over 60 days since it started and Rick had only arrived maybe 1 or two days prior. So either he was sitting pretty in Atlanta and with Morgan for several weeks or the math simply doesn't add up with the coma thing.

As for Andrea, she didn't want to save him after SHE knew those points. The heads and Penny in his closet were excusable considering we've seen a man wear a necklace of ears and another keep his family, neighbours and any walker nearby in his barn to feed and take care of. She only found out about Michonne around the time when she scheduled the meeting between ick and the Governor and it was clear that she made her choice and wasn't trying to save him. But does that mean that she automatically needed to kill him? No. And it fit her character more to have not killed him than to have just slit his throat, which is not an easy thing to do. Especially not easy if you were a human rights lawyer and most of the people in your life who've had a major impact on you were very sensitive about morals. She never wanted to forgive him like your example, which i find repulsive. To think she was even remotely close to the mindset of that woman is stupid on another level.

 

I agree, and I never really bought Andrea's line in Welcome to the Tombs about wanting to save even the Gov for awhile. Because after she knew of the heads and Penny/her friends being kidnapped...she actually was no longer close with the Gov. He lumbered her with the innocent Woodbury folk after he abdicated on purpose to trap her there on an emotional level, and she didn't want to leave them with a nut-job.

In episode 9 she featured very little, episode 10 was very little but even then she was weary of the Gov vanishing and was worried about her friends at the prison. Ep 11 she argued with the Gov, stormed off to the prison and returned with the idea to murder him. I didn't see her not killing him as saving him (it wasn't a weakness towards him) it was to save herself devolving in to a murderer. Murder may be common place in the show now as things have become a lot more extreme, but Woodbury was still relatively early days.

Ep 12 she didn't feature.

Ep 13 she learned of the Maggie incident and told Hershel she wanted to leave Woodbury, but as she was told by Hershel, she kind of can not, because if she does the Gov no longer has that dotted line between going 100% crazy right there and then. Shame they removed the scene were it was discussed more. Cause people think she went back for the Gov.

Ep 14 - she wanted to kill him. Tried to. (Easier emotionally to kill with a gun than a knife, as known in the forensic field, since the murderer is further removed from the victim.) I personally could shoot an animal abuser or a child molester with a gun but using a sharp object to kill someone no matter how much I hated them, isn't something I could bring myself to do. Feeling the flesh, veins and various tissues rip open...nah.

Rest is history. If you really look at Andrea's scenes in Season 3 past ep 8 you see she really had no time for the Gov himself.

But I also find it ridiculous for people to blame Andrea...it was simply the writers messing her up. Not her personal character actions. Look at Killer Within where the Gov tells Andrea it is just him and his daughter before she leaves Woodbury...but then she stays and Penny is never mentioned again by her? Or him. Even when she is in bed with him? Look at where Maggie's ordeal was held from Andrea when she visited the prison? And people still bitch Andrea took forever to pick them pliers up, not considering the fact the finale episode had to be gutted out and written around an already filmed episode, but at the same time written to keep Andrea confined in a chair for a whole episode.

If they used their head a bit more in season 3, they could have used Dale's "You're a lawyer, you fight with words" voice clip echoing in Andrea's head as she held the knife above the Gov.

I also enjoyed her suicide arc, seeing her overcome it. Of course it would have paid off a lot more had her and Dale's plots had chance to progress to the hunters arc, if the issues with Mazarra never arrived.

 

There's a difference between "overlooked," and "disagreed to the point of ignoring."

Regarding 60 days, that's yet another reason I can add to why I think season 1 is extremely overrated and not actually that good. I could maybe understand him surviving in the hospital for two or three weeks somehow, but 60 days is just idiotic.

Andrea knew damn well enough by episode 311. She went to the prison, learned that the governor did in fact attack them, and he sent Merle to kill Michonne for leaving, and also ordered Merle to kill Glenn and Maggie. That's PLENTY of reason to either leave him, or kill him.


oh, but she wanted to spare his life because she was a human rights bleeding-heart lawyer. Who gives a shit?! I have said numerous times I UNDERSTAND the reason she didn't want to kill be governor is because she was holding on to her humanity. But I don't care. I guess you "overlooked" that. It's the same as Tyreese being retarded and not killing Martin. It was a stupid decision in a situation where the correct answer was OBVIOUS: kill the psychopath, cut the head off the snake, and your friends will live. I understand it "fit her character more" to not kill him. And that is why I don't like her character.

 

It's funny how you are able to throw around such a a ridiculous thing like "There's a difference between "overlooked," and "disagreed to the point of ignoring."" and yet you seem to have completely disregarded half of the points i've made in this thread so let me spell it out for you again since you seemingly don't have the eyes nor brain capacity to read.

Carl putting down Shane? Like i've said multiple times now, to Lori it was something horrific and i think most mothers who gave a single shit about their child would be concerned to hear their husband claim that he let the kid 'put someone down'. It may be a TV show but take that away for a moment and put yourself in her position with her mindset,it's very a very understandable reaction to what Rick had just told her. Despite how much you disagree with her feelings on the topic and may act differently if it were you, yourself in the real world; that's how the character felt in that moment and that is what we're here to discuss. I don't really think there's much more to say on that scene without having another pointless back and forth circle-jerk of "she did it because Shane" and "She did it because Carl".

Sure, it's entirely possible that she has the potential to become a badass and to be able to shoot and kill walkers quite easily from a distance but having the motivation to get and become a survivor in that world is something completely different. Which is why Comic Andrea, as much as i love her really wasn't fleshed out in my own opinion. Suicide is clearly something you find to be stupid and that's your thoughts on the matter, not my own. However, in this case it was a part of her life that she had to go through to make her get up and realise that she wanted to live on her own terms. If someone is a natural with firearms, that doesn't mean that they have the mindset to become a hardened survivor capable of living in a world like that. Her suicide arc did nothing but strengthen her character after a short period of weakness and vulnerability. Carol is similar in this regard if you take out the suicide and replace it with her time with Ed'. She was weak and possibly the last person that anyone would ever consider living in that world ad yet it helped shape her into the strong woman she is today.

All Andrea knew by the time that episode closed was that while something was up with the Governor, she really had no clue because seemingly everyone was backing him up in Woodbury. He claimed that they shot at them upon arrival and Rick claimed that he attacked them. Merle took Maggie and Glenn prisoner and that's all she knew of the subject. Unlike the viewers (which many people seem to forget), Andrea had zero knowledge of the Governor ordering Merle to kill them and from what she can see, Rick and the group attacked Woodbury, killing innocent people who had no idea that the prison group existed. For example; Hayley, of whom was a little bit immature and cocky but was overall a sweet girl who hadn't the slightest idea of how that world worked because she'd been sheltered so much. They gunned her down without the slightest care in the world and then treated Andrea like a piece of shit and demanded that she slit Phillip's throat. I don't really think it takes much to see why exactly Andrea was on the fence for so long.

If they'd kill the Governor at the fighting pits or at-least shot him and one or two of his goons then maybe it would be easier to make heads or tails of the situation but both sides were in the wrong no matter how we are supposed to sympathise with one or the other.The difference being that The Governor was worse than Rick and the rest and that truly showed in later episodes.

 

you misunderstand. I read them, I just didn't think arguing them was worth my time.

well, there's your problem. I DISAGREE with her mindset. I'm not arguing about whether these things "made sense for the characters," I'm arguing that I don't like the characters-- largely because of their mindset and actions.

So, she's pissed Carl had to put down Shane. Alright. I can understand that. But why be pissed at Rick? Really, there are two people to blame: Shane, for being a such an asshat it required Rick killing him to get him to stop, and Lori for being so clueless as to her son's whereabouts that he was able to walz out of the house with an alleged killer on the loose.

How did it strengthen her? In my opinion, it turned her into an outsider with an attitude problem, then gave her the bright idea to let Beth attempt suicide and then act as if she expected a thank you from her sister.

i just don't get it. Admittedly it's been some time since I watched that episode (I often skip Andrea centric episodes) but I DISTINCTLY remember Michonne telling her that the governor sent Merle to kill her, and would've done the same to Andrea herself had she left. But no. She "chose a warm bed over a friend." This, combined with the assault on the prison, sounds like PLENTY of knowledge to me. Even if we ignore the heads and Glenn and Maggie.

Both sides were NOT in the wrong. The governor's side was holding prisoners and having two brothers fight to the death. The prison's side did what was necessary to break them out. If a few governor minions died in the crossfire, that's on the side that was holding prisoners.

 

Lori did have an excuse to blame Rick actually, when a Mother hears that her son 'put someone down' while to the best of her knowledge, the father watched and approved of. The actual thing she's upset about is more so how Rick presented it because putting down a walker is nothing to get upset about but he made it sounds as if Carl finished the job after he told her that he killed Shane. To any mother, let alone Lori who was very close with the man; that's horrifying on many different levels and the reaction was very-much warranted in my opinion. You can disagree and believe that she should have acted differently but in the end, we're just going to end up disagreeing on this as-well so let's drop it unless we can find some new angle on the situation.

Andrea's suicide arc strengthened her because despite her having a few personality traits (that were there from the beginning) that can understandably irritate someone; she grew into a much stronger woman and learned to survive. After losing basically everything she cared about except Dale, she didn't see any point going on because she would just wind up being another sad story that ended with her being torn apart. She'd be a victim and that is exactly what she didn't want to be from the moment she got past that whole arc. After Dale selfishly forced her not to do it and then treated her as if she were some naughty grandchild who needed to be banned from their toys or electronics, she realised that she had some serious thinking to do. When she realised that she didn't want to die horribly and be ripped to shreds; she got up, learned how to fight and became one of the few survivors in the group who could handle themselves. Take a good look at the woman at the beginning of S2 and then at the end, she ran for a day straight through the woods alone with a sizable herd of walkers chasing her, killing them as she ran.

So yeah, from a woman who so far had no intentions of being a fighter to then giving up on life; i'd say the suicide arc made her a stronger person altogether.

As for Beth, she wanted to give her the opportunity to make her own decision and get through it by her own means. She had the right idea but poor execution. Just like she said to Shane, she was doing the right thing but the wrong way. Although i really don't see how this upsets you; she tried to get rid of Beth.

She found out about Michonne, yes but at the same time, contrary to popular belief Andrea didn't just run back to him for a hug. She wanted nothing to do with the man unless he was willing to change so she set up a meeting to try and work things out and fix the problem because both sides had suffered and both sides had done terrible things, the difference being that the Governor's version of terrible is another whole level by comparison. A lot of people seem to forget that she really was trying to honour Dale and do what's right by everyone and not just herself. Phillip had literally told her that he was an unfit leader and made it sound as though she was going to step up for them all only to cast her aside later when she met with him and Rick. I also cannot stress it enough but the attack on the prison was one person#s word against another.

So no, she was lied to, treated poorly and after finally realising what she'd gotten herself into; she did the best she could at trying to solve it all without violence and killing.

Lastly, both sides were very-much in the wrong but as stated above, Rick and the group's crimes are still far fewer than the Governor's. You're also ignoring that i said that Maggie and Rick killed innocents in Woodbury and barely left a scratch on the actual threats. One would think that if you have enough time to line up a shot the way Maggie had, that she would aim for the Governor or at-least the people who actually pose a threat as opposed to a little girl or the innocent civilians they shot dead. It doesn't make them anywhere near as bad as the Governor but that on top of how they treated the situation as a whole was just plain wrong.

 

Dude, just let it go. I clearly don't give a shit about Lori or Andrea. You clearly do. Nothing either of us could ever say will change or even significantly alter the other's opinion. Let's just move on and await Eugene With the Sex and Queen Bitch Death Pokemon Carol-- two things we do agree on.

 

I hate this thread.

 

I hate this thread: