I think we all knew Judith wasn't Ricks. I think he held on to what he could to get him through the moment and to save Judith at all costs because he couldn't save Lori.

 

C'mon we all knew it- it was Rick actually saying it, that made it crystal clear

it it was also his recognition that made it set on stone- for him to say say it out loud. , to someone else.

 

I jumped when he said Shane's name. Wow. Love Ricky MF Grimes even more now. He knew and still loves and protects Judith. Andy and Danai are amazing actors and bring true grit to TWD. JDM's Negan looks like he is still in acting school next to those two.

Yes, I am already fed up of Negan.

 

My theory on this is that a large part of the viewing audience may still be quite young and (or) inexperienced. I've found in my life that in order to understand some things, you must first have to experience them, or at least partly similar circumstances. In dealing with difficult struggles and psychological issues, the person not only gains experience - and can grow from it, if they so choose - but they also are much more able to empathize and understand what others may be going through.

It's also very easy to sit back in the comfort of one's living room, watching a fictional storyline play out on the screen in front of them and declare "I'd never do that/feel that/react that way".

 

We SO need someone to post a graphic of Judith with Shane's face superimposed over hers. (I'd do it if I had the technological skill. )

 

google images has a few.

 

This is true -- but Rick did ostracize and refuse to speak with Lori for the entire season after he killed Shane Lori she reacted negatively to it --- and then, she died -- isolated from Rick because he chose to ice her out for several months. I found it strange that Rick would pick this time --4 seasons later -- for Rick to acknowledge Judith was Shane's biological child. And terribly, terribly tragic. Rick was relating it to their current situation , but I just don't see that at all.

That said, I am hoping to see the show's next iteration of Judith as a very young child with black, curly hair. Go Shane -- I still love him.

 

It only takes one time though - I thought maybe Rick swooped in like "I'm back, I'm putting my baby in you."


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You create a whole thread for a no shitter.

 

This creeps me out to the bones.

 

Bassetluv, that's a good theory re: the age and/or experience of the viewers. I agree that some things in life can't be fully understood unless you experience it yourself or have faced something similar. Definitely agree that undergoing one's experience can develop empathy and grow one's capacity to understand human life.

That's the thing: it is too easy to have that reaction that when watching from our comfy sofa. Bu if we were in these characters' shoes going through what they're experiencing...it'd be a whole different story.

By the way -- there are pics of Judith's face with Shane's face superimposed---it's so hilarious!

 

As others have said, great post ShaneFan. You mentioned that both viewers of the show and characters within the show look at Rick submitting to Negan's authority and think he's gone soft. Rick is definitely not soft, but he is learning from his mistakes even if the people around him are not. They have succeeded in the ZA so far by fighting, which is what Michonne points out to him. But Rick has learned from Shane and learned from what happened to Glenn/Abraham: brute force blunt resistance is not enough in this case. They need to be smarter and more patient than that in order to survive and win.

So when you are a leader, like Rick, you have to be the first person to learn from mistakes and change course. It takes time for other people in your group to change course around you. It also takes time for the viewers of the show to come around to that new way of thinking.

This lag time is something they can't afford, and that is exactly what he was trying to communicate to Michonne with the story about Shane. If they aren't all on board with Rick's new plan right now ("submit to survive") then they won't survive. They can't hang out in the woods with a sniper rifle or hide guns --- it is too obvious and therefore inneffective. It nearly cost Olivia her life, and Rick would have been made to strike her down, subjecting him to even more crippling grief.

It should also be pointed out that "submit to survive" is the same plan that has been adopted by Dwight and by King Ezekiel. The show has established Negan as a seemingly insurmountable threat for every character.

 

it

Actually, she told Shane that no matter whose baby it is, it is Rick's. That's a pretty tacit admission.

 

[MENTION=51011]Backspace[/MENTION] -- Exactly! Rick hasn't gone soft, it's just he's learning from his mistakes--and these were huge mistakes that led to the brutal deaths of Glenn and Abraham. The others around him probably haven't learned because they don't carry the same burden he does. From nearly the beginning, Rick has carried on his back what happens to everyone. That's a huge weight to carry. I don't envy him or his position.

You bring up a good point: in the past, the group got through by fighting. In some cases, it was needed such as with The Governor and Terminus, but this is totally different. As you said, Rick needs to be patient and smart...it may take longer, but the victory will be sweet when he does eventually overcome Negan. Negan has the numbers and Rick doesn't. Negan also has the morale and right now Rick and the group are lacking it for very understandable reasons.

That's exactly it: Rick is the leader and in order for the group to change course, he has to be the first one to set the example. Eventually the group will follow and hopefully the viewers will too. This is Rick's story about what it takes to survive a ZA.

I agree with you that submitting to survive is what Rick was explaining to Michonne re: Shane. When Shane said "the right choice is the one that keeps us alive"...that "right choice" could mean different things at different times. Sometimes you have to use brute force as Rick did against the Claimers, other times you have to nip the problem in the bud before it blossoms such as with Randall. Other times, you have a situation where you're facing a foe like Negan who you need to really plan against. Being impulsive will not work in Rick's case against Negan...Daryl behaved impulsively out of emotion when Negan taunted Rosita and Glenn ended up getting killed. What you said about Olivia was what I thought too: that if Negan had Olivia killed, he would make Rick do it, and this would break Rick further.

That's true that King Ezekiel and Dwight have adopted the same "submit to survive" -- because Negan is a threat to them and so many others, it really is a great way to start the foreshadowing for All Out War.

Great post! I hope you post more with us!

 

My thing is how would Lori know that Shane is the father? Much less, how would Rick know?

 

Well, you know how it is with married folks and Rick and Lori were having marital problems before the zombie outbreak. "Icing her out" was Rick's passive aggressive way of punishing her. He thought they'd have time to work things out but like you said..."then, she died". We saw how the guilt drove him a little cray for awhile. Why did it take him so long to verbally acknowledge what he believed to be true? He didn't feel the need to before this. Not everyone likes to share things that are immensely private to them. It was enough that he took on the responsibility to raise this child as his own, to love her and protect her. That was his way of making amends to both his former wife and best friend.

 

I think the reason why it took him awhile to verbally acknowledge it was due to the timing of everything. He had kept Judith alive time and time again, but this time with the threat of Negan after losing Glenn and Abraham, he probably felt that more than ever, he will do whatever it takes to keep her alive.

 

I know I'm real late to the party but there are some great posts here, especially about the psychology of Rick at the time he made those comments about Shane. I can't help but feel that as the seasons progress, Rick is beginning to see more and more how Shane was right all along.

Having said that though, I can't imagine how awful he feels now that he's lost Lori and Carl. Judith is all he has left, and she's probably the only reason he has to keep going.