trying to fight while pregnant was pretty dumb on her part, in addition to going along with this mission in the first place. gave me the impression that maggie doesn't even care about her unborn.

 

Yes very good acting on display tonight.

 

On the contrary. She is fighting for the safety of her child and her husband. This is a primal instinct that is present in almost all animals.

 

Agree that she shouldn't have gone in the first place. But disagree that trying to fight in the situation they ended up in was dumb. Their captors had no qualms about wanting to kill them both.

 

Actually, in the ZA when you attack another group, there's always a probability you will either die or get captured and be held captive. Lets not act like it was a surprise.

 

I was very impressed!
Going into this episode, I was definitely expecting Carol to be the one to steal the show, which she did in her own right.
However, Maggie was the one that really took the reins and kicked some Savior ass.

 

No, going along with the mission was pointless but the intention was not to get held captive, although that obviously is a risk. She went along with it primarily as backup of some kind(ineffective)because Glenn and the rest of the crucial group members were there. If they had placed her in a useful position, a covered position, then that would have been a different story. Everybody was lax on the attack plan so it's not just on Maggie and without her group as protection and without Glenn there's no point at all in continuing with a pregnancy.

Getting held captive, both Carol and Maggie had to fight their way out of that to escape with their lives. There was no option but fighting your way out of that situation.

Maggie was a complete boss in this episode, so was Carol even with the moral crisis she is experiencing and they got much needed intel and thinned out the numbers and reduced the risk to the rest of the group by ensuring a firefight didn't happen.

Poor planning on the initial attack - A+ on Maggie's performance as a captive. I'll give Carol a B.

 

Lauren Cohen and Melissa McBride - excellent actresses. We know Melissa is great, but it's great to see more depth from Lauren and it's great to see Maggie toughening up and becoming the leader that the rest are projecting her to be.

Maggie was boss in negotiating the deal, Maggie was boss in deciding to kill the rest of the Saviors and not pull any of this moral crisis stuff and Maggie was stone cold logical and clear headed through the event and it's why she survived and Carol survived it.

Carol I hope to see get her self back in order, I don't like this. I know other people like it and Melissa McBride is portraying it masterfully, but I prefer the Carol that is not suffering from deep contrition.

It's funny to me that the Morgan apologists and misguided moralists who post nonsense defending people in the apocalypse who can't pull the trigger when necessary were utilizing Glenn and Maggie as examples that are comparable to Morgan because both were not killers and both were supportive and helpful to others.

Maggie put that shit to bed. She's developing quite nicely and indeed is looking like a future leader.

 

[MENTION=83681]AnnieOakley[/MENTION] - girl you are on FIRE tonight! Love your insight on the Carol/Morgan thing. She does need to come to terms with herself and him on this matter. Perhaps his new welding project will help surface it? I'm willing to extend grace to her because she is feeling the emotional weight of some heavy stuff and is vulnerable and perhaps confused. I think she will achieve clarity.

While I agree that Maggie is emerging as a strong leader, I have to disagree that she was "boss" in that negotiation.

1. The head idiot of Hilltop (forgot his name) disrespected Rick - the undisputed leader of the group. Rick IMO should not have stood for it, and neither should Maggie.
2. Maggie does need to emerge as a leader, but she is totally unqualified to negotiate military actions. If she was to arbitrate, she should have kept Rick and Abe as advisors on this. I'm frankly astounded they went along with it considering their respective professional backgrounds.

So when this all shakes out, if I were in Maggie's shoes, I'd be in a dark place knowing I engaged in a war with no intelligence, and no long term military plan other than risking the lives of my closest friends.

 

My future ex wife did an awesome job. She also has a sexy "ohh face."

 

My future ex wife did an awesome job. She also has a sexy "ohh face."

 

Why is Maggie to blame for this? Rick's the one that sent her in there to negotiate. Not sure why he did that, it seemed like a set up for this last Maggie/ Carol episode, but it did seem strange that he chose this time to "groom" her into leadership. I actually can't believe they went along with it either. Also it's not just Rick and Abe who could have been advised (who both have a history of emotional outbursts and instability), but Michonne, Glenn, Rosita and Carol too. They've all kept their cool and have had good instincts under pressure and crisis (for the most part) in the past. I'd probably go to one of them for advice before Abe or Rick. Better yet, keep the group counsel and have everyone shoulder the responsibility of speaking up and examining things from various angles, rather than blindly following a poorly thought out plan. They weren't so pressed for time that they couldn't have taken a moment to brainstorm. Not sure why Maggie should shoulder the blame on this.

 

Abe as an adviser on what? ****ing up and being extremely emotionally unstable? Abe is the dumbest, or at very least 2nd dumbest member of the entire group - I say dumbest because I don't include Morgan.

 

Because Gregory specifically wanted to speak with Maggie both the 1st time and after he was stabbed. It was not a poor choice to send her in, she's one of the most level headed in the entire group but has a disarming "vibe" unlike Rick and the other super masculine guys or sword carrying Michonne. Maggie's presence is deceptive to her intellect and even keel nature, which is very useful in a tense negotiation because in the end to get a deal you're selling something.

I can't see why anyone would mention Abe to be involved in planning or negotiations, Abe isn't even capable of keeping his personal life together and I'm sure they had a detailed talk before sending Maggie in - it was implied vaguely. Should have been on camera.

 

In a nutshell - leadership. IMO "blame" is just a weak word for responsibility. She has embraced the role of leader, and IF she possesses the innate qualities that make a good leader - she will deeply feel ownership for her decisions. While I agree that Rick bungled this badly by going along with it - what I was communicating in the last sentence of my post was a personal feeling of responsibility and ownership for making a bad decision that led to the deaths of my closest friends. I cannot relate to anyone who says they could shrug that off or point fingers to others. Leaders do not "blame" , leaders own.

 

I wasn't questioning whether or not she was capable, just odd for Rick to agree to that now, when he has a history of being so controlling about things like that. What I was pointing out was that things going south weren't all Maggie's fault. Lol about Abe, he can fight, but he's not a strategist.

 

I agree that Abe's personal life is in a spiral. TO BE CLEAR. What was being negotiated with Hilltop was a military campaign. As a Sgt. Abe SHOULD be able to speak to this concept from professional experience. I believe he mentioned somewhere that he had been deployed. Yes he broke Rosita's heart because he's dumb and emotionally confused. But he SHOULD be able to speak to points such as:
1. Reconnaissance
2. Communications
3. Being an RSO and training shooters (Hilltop should have skin in this game)
4. Training CQB/CQC (again Hilltop)
5. Setting up L ambushes, creating IEDs (didn't he once say he blew up a camel?), FOF, etc
6. In general offensive and defensive strategies

Abe SHOULD be able to speak to these things regardless of what an emotionally stunted selfish dumb etc etc etc he may be.