The Morgan debate is what is so great about this show. Let me ask you this: If you were standing there, surrounded by 20-deep walkers who have broken through the fences, who would you want defending you—Morgan or Tara/Rosita/Eugene who threw guns down in the fact of a lunatic killer and let him go? I vote Morgan. At least Morgan tied him up. If you were facing terrible human enemies who kill, maim,torture and worse as they are about to, would you want Morgan on your side? I would. Do I approve of him letting the Wolves go and causing the problem they’re in now – NO! But I think, faced with survival NOW, this man MIGHT come to his senses.. Just as Rick did (with a slight over-reaction when he finally decide to quit walking in crazy-land).

 

The Tara/Rosita deal was bad writing, but it happened in canon. I wouldn't want Tara, but Rosita has overall proven to be a useful companion to the group, so I'd take Rosita over all 3. Morgan would be my last pick to have on my side.

Yes, he can defend against walkers and if the threat was only walkers that is a different scenario... but we're also dealing with hostile human threats and he has proved to be an insane liability in regards to that.

Walkers by themselves, without hostile human intervention, are a very manageable threat because they are mindless. The Walker horde idea is the prime example I can give that confirms that - without the wolves attack and the airhorn, the horde would have gone on it's merry way up the road. Without the attack from the Saviours, Daryl and co. would have had no issue making it back safely and quickly.

The human threat is the true immediate threat.

Morgan has proved 100% incapable of dealing with the human threat in a logical and "team oriented" manner and is his own splinter cell of radical pseudo-religious moron.

The only thing I'd do with Morgan if I was leading the group is put a bullet in his head for all of the trouble he has caused my people.

This thread also has pages and pages of posts that clarify my position in a much more detailed way, I just lost interest in debating with people that want to compare Morgan's insane actions to non-killers, but overall team players like Glenn, who work well within the group despite holding onto a humanist moral compass.

In regards to the moral compass - I myself am a "moderate" - dead center. Much like Rick himself, although I'd like to think that I'd be more aware of my surroundings than Rick has been.

Rick/Carol and anybody else in the group are within logical reason to dispose of Morgan after all of the damage he has caused and how he chose to protect a murderous psychopath over Carol, one of the groups most valued leaders.

And that's it.

/end

 

In real day to day life or death scenario's, the only thing you have time for is raw and brutal logic. No time for bullshit, emotionalism, political correctness or too much double thinking.

The fans of the show that defend people like Morgan, or side with him, would not last very long in the conditions of the show.

The Zombie Apocalypse itself is survivable by humanity. The zombie's within a number of years, even with slowed decay as it is in TWD universe will eventually rot to nothingness and if survivors could make sustained strong communities then they could manage the situation and "ride it out"... so to speak.

The issue again is the human threat. The human threat is what undermines the ability to manage the situation. The human threat is what dismantles society in the first place, with everything descending into chaos upon the emergence of zombie's and spiraling quickly out of control to a quick societal collapse. If everyone was super logical to begin with and the world was not rampant with hysteria and emotionalism, the Zombie Apocalypse would certainly be a huge global economic meltdown, but would be managed and eventually beaten without society totally collapsing... which it could then rebuild with the new reality that humans reanimate after dying...

However, humans don't currently operate as a big "logical team". It's everyone for themselves and hysterical emotionalism has been programmed into us, so that's why society would melt down just as quickly as TWD and FTWD shows in the event of a global zombie outbreak.

If we were living in that reality and we intended to try our best to survive, then banding with other like minded trust worthy and adaptable survivors that have it in them to grow strong is our best chance of surviving and "riding it out".

In that context, your margin of error - which includes swiftly dealing with bullshit, insane people and emotionalism is extremely acute.

If you disagree with me, this is fine, but I'm going to note how when catastrophe's do occur in the real world, they are usually met with immediate and long term social and cultural changes. This is a by product of being slapped in the face with instinctual and truthful logic over the illogical emotionalism that is forced down your throat as soon you can start processing information as a child.

 

This is perceptive. Looking back on the entire first half, the story line seems to address the real risks and hazards of being "good", i.e. non-violent or as least-violent as you can and trying to save others in this world. Morgan's story was the most extreme example of this, but it wasn't only Morgan.

Glenn risked his life more than once to save Nick. In risking his own life, he risked Maggie's life because he wouldn't be there to help protect her as well as his unborn child's life. It worked okay (so far), but it might not have. Carl let Ron's incredibly bad behavior slide and even Rick fell for Ron's act. As a result, Ron almost killed Carl and now 8 people are in peril because Carl gave another chance to Ron instead of knocking him out or killing him. Denise risked her life to tell Wolf-Guy he could change. That's not looking so good for her.

On the other hand, Rick warned his group, including Michonne, not to sacrifice themselves to save other people who were less skilled. Rick's group got ticked, but was Rick right, all things considered? It's a really powerful story and Morgan's behavior brings it to an apex. Maybe the point is --yes, if its ONLY you at stake, you can take whatever risks you want to save inept people or even bad people, for whatever reason. But if it is not only you at stake, do you have the right to subject everyone else to the risks associated with that?

And going back to Darryl, who has become quite the pacifist himself, and Aaron --- how much fault do they bear for not telling anybody at ASZ about the chopped up bodies in the woods, the woman tied to a tree to be eaten alive, the hundreds of walkers in tractor trailers, many chopped in half?

In some ways, Carol's "kill that wolf without delay" versus Morgan's "keep him imprisoned for life, if necessary, but don't kill him" is an echo of Dale versus the group's debate over whether to execute Morgan. The outcome of that debate over what do to with bad, evil people who are a threat was terrible, terrible, terrible. As critical as I have been about some of the D.A. hopscotching about in this season, the story is brilliant and deep. ( I think Gimple just erred in the way it was presented)

All that said, if I were there,I wouldn't throw Morgan out right this minute for one reason only. Even without killing, Morgan is a formidable fighter. You have to give him credit for helping Carol to prevent a whole-sale massacre of ASZ. Yes, it was shocking he didn't kill the wolves the first time he encountered them. But then, neither Aaron nor Darryl told Rick or anybody else about the horrors they had seen committed by these Wolves in the woods and in the food factory. When Morgan let the wolf-attackers go, I think he truly thought they would not be back. Stupid? Yes. But how would he foresee they would run into Rick and that Rick would lead hundreds of walkers back to ASZ as a result (instead of, for example, leading them to that town that Enid was hiding out in)? In sparing them, Morgan took a risk which he undoubtedly thought was a long shot. He was wrong.

They are down at least 4-5 great fighters due to the kidnapping, Glenn's delay and Carol's unconsciousness. Time to pull together, not pull apart.

In retrospect -- this is a terrific story (which probably could have been told better without the showrunner gamesmanship)

 

Well that's just the thing, I would not be standing anywhere with any amount of walkers surrounding me, it simply wouldn't happen... I do however agree that he's not beyond redemption.

 

Everything about this post is spot on except for giving Morgan credit for helping defend ASZ from the Wolves, I'd say he didn't help the situation at all while the attack was on going and he without doubt caused more issue's letting them go. Which that's ignoring keeping the guy locked up secretly.

How many Wolves did Morgan subdue? He subdued one and was insanely trying to tie him up while the attack was happening. He subdued 4 more and let them go, which they disabled the RV and that stopped Rick from being able to get the herd away from ASZ, then he subdued the Alpha Wolf and we know how that went. F-, complete fail. He is the reason that the rest of the group couldn't dispose of the 4-5 he let go and the one he locked up.

The absence of Morgan still would have resulted in Carol, Rosita, Tara and Aaron removing all of the Wolves.

His biggest use was Carol using him as cover, which he blew that to go save Father Gabriel and tie up the Wolf and that could have resulted in Carol's death. So we'll give him a D+ on that one thing. I'm going to give Carol the benefit of the doubt in that she'd have secured the armory without him, because Carol is simply a boss.

I understand he's an adept fighter and survivalist and the group is low on them and I would agree with you if he was just some normal softy that couldn't kill an enemy, but could be a team player, but Morgan's a total menace.

He overall offers nothing but a massive internal threat to the groups existence.

You have a really smart post here overall, I don't know why you still think he adds anything given all of the variables.

 

Interesting thread, but I'm not about to read the entire thing. Too wordy for me and I have ADD.
My point on Morgan is that he's totally crazy with his "all life is precious" theory. This attitude caused him to allow the Alpha Wolf and his partner to survive in the woods (by leaving them in the car). This lead to their survival and thus the death of read poncho guy, the attack on Alexandria, which in turn allowed the walker horde to invade the walls. So by this one act of "all life is precious" he's paved the way for multiple deaths of non-walkers. So much for all life being precious. Maybe all life should be precious.......except Morgan's??