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Morgan logic corrected.

Discussion in 'Episode 615 - East' started by Ionut, Mar 28, 2016.

  1. Jen7

    Jen7 Well-Known Member

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    For now, he's lucked out.
     
  2. QOTWD

    QOTWD Member

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    It absolutely matters. Th wolf did not save her. Only thing he did was expose her to more danger than she wouldve had with several of Ricks experienced group leading her back when needed.
     
  3. westwingnut

    westwingnut Well-Known Member

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    Well, I think the RV attack would have happened with 3 or 4 Wolves instead of 5 had Morgan tried to take them down--even if we consider the possibility of him knocking them out and taking them captive.

    There's still the fact that Morgan didn't kill the first two Wolves he encountered, and that he took one captive without telling the rest of the community. The latter is a huge strike against Morgan, even if there were a couple of positive silver linings that resulted.
     
  4. Captain Sisko

    Captain Sisko Member

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    Morgan gave them a chance to live and change their ways, They chose to go against morgans logic and encountered someone who killed them. Rick wasnt hurt when they attacked the rv

    Everything gets a return.
     
  5. AAG331

    AAG331 Member

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    That's 100% untrue. Owen DID in fact save her. When Owen led Denise to one of the guard towers in order to hop the wall, Owen saved Denise from a walker, when he could've just ran. As a consequence he was bitten on the arm. And even when they were making a beeline towards the infirmary, after Carol shot Owen, he tackled the walkers to devour him instead of Denise. So Owen in fact saved Denise's life TWICE.

    And why would Denise even have left the Monroe's mansion if Owen wasn't present? She was already safe, no need to jeopardize her safety by going out for no reason at all. But as a consequence of Owen being bitten, she had a motivation to go to the infirmary.
     
  6. AAG331

    AAG331 Member

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    Rick could've been killed by those Wolves, and Morgan letting them go put Rick's life and other innocent lives out there in danger.
     
  7. FutureApocalyps

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    Morgan is still flawed emotionally. He takes HUGE unnecessary and crazy risks that jeopardize those around him. I thought Rick was going to kill him in this episode.
     
  8. Captain Sisko

    Captain Sisko Member

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    Abraham sasha and daryl weren't there. Glenn was still separated outside the walls after being missing with enid. Maggie was stuck on a makeshift guard tower with minimal bullets, Father gabriel was tending to judith. Rosita, tara and eugene were trapped in a garage.

    Who were the experienced people to get denise to the infirmary after rick allowed ron to shoot carl.
     
  9. AAG331

    AAG331 Member

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    Morgan and Carol were with her too, and Rosita, Tara, and Eugene were also in the same building but in different locations. But like I said before, Denise wouldn't of had any motivation to leave that place and head to the infirmary if Owen (The Alpha Wolf) hadn't been there and also had been bitten.
     
    #49 AAG331, Mar 28, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
  10. QOTWD

    QOTWD Member

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    You dont get it. The wolf putting her in harms way to begin with, caused the need to be saved. The chaos of the attack and Carl being shot is motivation enough for her to go anywhere needed to help.If she wasnt kidnapped she wouldve had an armed group escort wherever she was needed.
     
  11. BlackLightning

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    Additionally, Owen fed Denise the courage and the confidence she needed to operate on Carl.

    Instead of instantly taking charge of the situation, she would've spazzed out like she did with Holly and Scott. In fact, if Denise was anything like Rick (i.e. "I don't take chances anymore), where would Carl be?
     
  12. AAG331

    AAG331 Member

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    But I do get it. Regardless, Denise's life would've been in jeopardy, whether or not Owen forced her outside or not. She was going to HAVE to go outside to the infirmary regardless. Denise had NO idea Carl had been shot. The only time she realised was when Rick and Michonne headed towards the infirmary. She happened to catch them in the window. If she was back at the Monroe's place, she couldn't of gotten there in time.
     
  13. BlackLightning

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    No it wasn't. Remember what kind of person Denise was before? She stayed in her apartment reading all day.

    And no she wouldn't of had an armed escort. Rosita made it abundantly clear that there was no way she was going outside until Carol said that Rick and the others were making a stand and that she was going to go out and help.

    Additionally, Eugene, Morgan and Carol also were not itching to go outside. If the four of them were not going to go outside into that #@$!storm to save Denise, what makes you think they would do that to escort Densie somewhere. Especially when you consider that they knew nothing about what happened to Carl.

    Tara clearly wanted to go outside and save the day but you can see that when Rosita called her bluff, Tara sat herself down and kept quiet.
     
    #53 BlackLightning, Mar 28, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2016
  14. AAG331

    AAG331 Member

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    Exactly. That was her first real taste of reality. And if Denise had Rick's mentality, she wouldn't have bothered to even go outside nor help Owen with his injuries.
     
  15. QOTWD

    QOTWD Member

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    Rosita, Tara, Carol,Morgan, and Eugene? were all at the place she was led out of as a hostage by the wolf. Thats a hell of an escort right there.

    And as for Denises character before the wolf if you want to stretch for that. No one on the show but Denise could know for sure.
     
  16. BlackLightning

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    Rosita made it abundantly clear that there was no way that she was going outside until Carol came downstairs. Additionally, Eugene, Morgan and Carol were also not trying to going outside...until Carol saw Rick and the others fighting back.

    If the four of them were not going to go outside into that #@$!storm to save Denise, what makes you think they would go outside to escort Densie. Especially when you consider that they knew nothing about what happened to Carl and, thus, would've had no reason to try and escort her.

    Tara? Okay, Tara clearly wanted to go outside and save the day. But you can see that when Rosita called her bluff, Tara sat herself down and kept quiet.
     
  17. QOTWD

    QOTWD Member

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    Denise had to be "saved" twice just to make it back to where they all were to begin. Ultimately she needed help from the Carol upstirs to fully clear her way past where she already was to make it to the infirmary.
     
  18. WalkingBuckeye

    WalkingBuckeye Well-Known Member

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    My last weigh-in on the subject, since everyone seems fairly wedded to his/her position:

    1. If I run over you with my car and then drive you to the hospital, I don't get to say I saved your life. Morgan's logic just adds one extra player into the scenario.
    2. Denise's hypothetical whereabouts aren't the issue. She wouldn't have been in the brownstone cellar with a freakin' psychopath killer who got loose--despite Morgan's claim to have him secured--and took her hostage. The wolf was in the position to save Denise's life b/c the wolf was the one who put it in the jeopardy in the first place.
    3. Blaming Carol for interfering is like saying that the neighbor shouldn't have come to the door when she suspected someone was in danger in the house. "Oh, you have our only doctor helping a killer whom you've had hidden in your house and not brought to anyone's attention? Well, what could go wrong with that? Toodles!"
    4. Have the conversation about how difficult these decisions are, how you struggle with them, and how grateful you are that it all worked out. But don't act like your philosophy was borne out by the events that unfolded. That's an honesty I could admire.
     
  19. westwingnut

    westwingnut Well-Known Member

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    If Denise wasn't in the infirmary when Carl was brought it, Rick surely would have gone out to get her. And being RMFG, he would have done so successfully.

    But I think that in this scenario, Rick likely would not have ventured out again to take on the walkers. And then the rest of the group wouldn't have joined in. And then the walkers would have overrun the ASZ and eaten everybody.

    Therefore, Morgan saved everyone.
     
  20. shhh its me

    shhh its me Member

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    Jessie's house was the only one that was breached apparently, there were people in many of the buildings. Only the "fighters" got caught outside. Denise had patients already she was "on the clock" making a house call, otherwise her most likely location would have been the infirmary and in case of an emergency its the most likely place she would have run to. She wasn't a confidant Dr but she was committed to the job.

    As far as her getting over her panic attacks because of the Wolf , we know that Morgan doesn't , unless Denise told them.

    Rick likes Morgan and knows he's not evil he is willing to give him a great deal more wiggle room then a stranger. Morgan did have one point .... New and improved Rick would have been more likely to kill Carol rather then banish her , he gave her a chance and they are all alive because of it. Obliviously, Carol killing Karen and David was much more of a grey area then killing wolves. Rick is/was probably a little too trigger happy(planning how many ASZ people they would have to kill to "save" them) and Morgan is way way way too far on the pacifist side. Morgan was alone when he let the 2 Wolves go , I don't actually fault him for that, not what I would have done but he was free to make the choice not to kill them at that time. Letting the 4 wolves leave ASZ after an unprovoked psychotic attack, did directly cause Rick to fail at leading the heard away and was under the obligation to provide reasonable defense of the city he was living in.

    Also people get very illogical about their kids , "Denise saved Carl , The Wolf saved Denise , I spared the Wolf , therefore sparing the Wolf saved Carl" makes more emotional sense if your kid just got shot in the head.
     

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