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Morgan was Right?!

Discussion in 'Episode 609 - No Way Out' started by TWD_fanatic, Feb 15, 2016.

  1. WalkingDog

    WalkingDog Member

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    All Life is Precious is not a way to keep yourself alive. I actually think his mentality is dead-on. He just needs to hone it better, and pick situations where he could actually replicate the scenario the cheese maker did. As for cheeseman's death, it is certainly possible he would have simply been overwhelmed some day on his own. It's also possible he could have died before Morgan was let out of his cell, and that Morgan kept him going.

    Morgan helps keep them who they were, rather than all turning into Carol.
     
  2. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    Western civilization, though having evolved more humanist and such, was never even close to anything like Morgan, who will risk disaster and annihilation to save the life of a psychotic murderer.

    Some in the group such as Glenn, hold onto a more realistic and mentally healthy representation of "who they were".
     
  3. Zvivor

    Zvivor Well-Known Member

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    I think the wolves came to ASZ because they found Aaron's bag and pictures. But then Morgan let 3 or 4 of the wolves go, a couple of whom grabbed guns. They attacked Rick and Rick's run for his life lead half the giant herd to Alexandria. Now that I think about it, I'm a little confused. Did the half of the horde that peeled off with the horn blowing go to Alexandria plus the other half also came led there by Rick?
     
  4. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    The other half was being led by Abe/Sasha/Daryl. They went 20 miles out and the horde kept going. The walkers that surrounded Rick's camper were the first half. The half already headed there.
     
  5. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    So basically Morgan would be dead-on if only his actions were honed differently, and in different situations. The specific actions he has been doing, in the situations we've seen, have actually been dead wrong. Keeping other people who they were is helping them die. The world has evolved, and we need to, in part, evolve with it.
     
  6. VickGrimes

    VickGrimes Well-Known Member

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    The Wolves that Morgan let go were the ones that found Aaron's bag though. If he would have killed them like he should have, they never would have found the bag in the first place and therefore never would have known about Alexandria and so on and so forth...

    And like Neuro said, the walker herd that passed by Rick in the RV was the half that broke off because of the horn. Rick wasn't leading the herd to Alexandria, he was trying to outrun them so he could warn the others.
     
  7. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    1 strike for letting hostile whacko's live to begin with, hostile whacko's that found Aaron's bag and attacked ASZ, causing the current crisis.

    2 strikes for allowing hostile whacko's that you recognize from the previous encounter go, disabling the RV and allowing the horde to descend on ASZ.

    3 strikes and you're out of there permanently for deceitfully harboring the Wolf, knocking out Carol to protect the wolf.

    ....................

    I don't understand the Morgan apologists. The crisis of S6 so far is directly attributed to him and his craziness. It's not up for debate.

    If that's the right idea then everybody would have been dead a long time ago.
     
  8. runcornwalker

    runcornwalker Member

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    Yes your right. I thought the wolf was going to leave denise but then he turned back for her. Maybe he was changing. Just sods law he gets bit.
     
  9. Terminator

    Terminator Well-Known Member

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    But the Alpha Wolf wouldn't have found Aaron's bag if Morgan had killed him and his partner off in the woods. It was after the encounter with Morgan that the Wolf man found the pictures.
     
  10. AnnieOakley

    AnnieOakley Active Member

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    If Morgan is right then the Earth is flat.
     
    #30 AnnieOakley, Feb 17, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2016
  11. Puhnesq

    Puhnesq Member

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    Morgan was right about the Wolf, because he even threw his own life away (and it didn't look like an accident to me) to save the girl's life. At that point you can't blame it on him doing it for medical assistance.
     
    #31 Puhnesq, Feb 18, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  12. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    The show leaves that ambiguous and up for debate. Using rationale :

    - The Wolf kidnapped Denise to get out, that's understandable from his position.
    - The Wolf has a bad infection and needs Denise as well.
    - The Wolf is trying to get through the herd with Denise to escape outside of the walls.
    - The Wolf comes to Denise's aide not with the intent to throw his life away, but to save his medic, but gets bitten. -
    - Denise then offers to take him to the infirmary for amputation, with a slight chance of survival and no other option he goes.
    - They get tangled up and the Wolf tries to help them through the walkers on way to infirmary when Carol shoots Wolf, Wolf falls over on Walkers with him telling her to keep going.

    He didn't throw his life away to save Denise and he was on his way to dying anyway due to infection. And even if he did have a possible soft spot for Denise, that doesn't in anyway mean "Morgan was right".
     
  13. fylimar

    fylimar Active Member

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    I thought the same thing about Sam and Carol: She frigthened that boy even more with her horror tales. Maybe, he still would have freaked out, maybe not. Either way, she could have taken the time to help him facing his fears, when he came to her, he obvioulsy trusted her. This is not Carol bashing, I don't believe in black or white: both Morgan and Carol were wrong in some of their decisions and it lead to catastrophes. That's why I said in another thread, that I think a group needs someone like Carol and someone like Morgan to balance things out - I guess the middle would be someone like Glenn or Michonne with a touch more of Hershel.

    Anyway: I don't think, that Carol could have done anything other than shooting the wolf from her pov. So I guess, that was it with the wolves. I would like for her and Morgan to work their differences out and find some common ground, they have both valuable points, but Carol should learn how to act civil if needed (like with Sam) and Morgan needs a bit of a reality check - he is far too trustworthy. There is nothing like a good Zombie apocalypse to bring out the best or worst in everyone. And I guess, there is more often than not no going back. Like Deannas son or the wolves as a group (I don't know, if this last one would have really changed or not, I leave that open for now) - they were lost. But obvioulsy, it was right of Rick to trust Gabriel, so the real art here is to know when there is a chance for someone and when not...
     
    #33 fylimar, Feb 18, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  14. Camilleyun

    Camilleyun Well-Known Member

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    Concerning the Wolf, it is irrelevant to me whether Morgan's philosophy has any merit.
    The guy and his friends just ambushed and hacked their people into bits a few hours ago.
    Just because he may have a softer, gentler psycho killer side that Denise was able to coax up, doesn't mean he isn't still a F*CKING DERANGED LUNATIC.

    It's like saying the Governor isn't that bad because he showed some kindness to Ms Mcleod before cutting Hershel's head off.
    I like Morgan's character, but he is wrong to risk everyone's lives to test out his philosophy. Carol is and was right to shoot him, even if she can acknowledge that there may have been a flicker of humanity left in him. Going forward doesn't mean you aren't accountable for what you've done.
     
    #34 Camilleyun, Feb 18, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  15. Biffster

    Biffster Well-Known Member

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    Good points. It's one thing to have the "all life is precious" philosophy if you're making your way alone in the world, but when you're with a group, you have to take the group's needs into account as well. And anyway, maybe all life is not precious—take mosquitoes for example.
     
  16. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    Excellent analogy!

    Or like saying that the Governor is able to be "changed" the manner in which Morgan and his apologists suggest because he had a soft side for certain people. The Governor was a Jekyl/Hyde and unfortunately for him and his victims - his Hyde side was more the dominant and would always take over and just required a stimulant at any given time to do so.

    The best thing about the analogy you've presented here as well is that most are going to agree that trying to change a psychotic monster like the Governor would be a fruitless endeavor, but that the Governor himself had a wealth of good qualities in his Jekyl side, where as this Wolf had not a single good quality.
     
  17. Terminator

    Terminator Well-Known Member

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    Or be forgiven for past transgressions just because you go to Confession.
     
  18. Terminator

    Terminator Well-Known Member

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    It isn't the morally right decision, but in your analogy, it was the best for everyone else except the murderer. People are trying to make one set of circumstances be the guide for all similar events. Each one needs to be addressed on its own due to unique circumstances.
     
  19. Adam Poole

    Adam Poole Member

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    Its not a matter of being right or wrong. Both of them have their respective points and they both proved them in their own way. The Wolf may have seen the light at the very end proving Morgan's philosophy is at least possible (look at Carol's face when he saves Denise) but it just as easily could have been an act and it definitely was too little too late. Carol's point is that the risk is too great to take chances on changing someone in the future when that person poses a threat to you and your friends right now. And now that Carol killed the Wolf he definitively poses no further threat to them, because they have enough other threats to worry about as it is. Both points are valid in a vacuum. But they don't live in a vacuum they live in a freakin' zombie apocalypse so there is no denying that many more of them would be dead if Carol had followed Morgan's philosophy and many more of them would probably be alive if Morgan had followed Carol's.

    Random fortuitous events (Denise being in infirmary) cannot be used to justify Morgan's philosophy when they have nothing to do with his motivations. You could go back 4 or 5 episodes and substitute Morgan's actions for how Carol would have acted and I'm sure there'd be an entirely different timeline with some fortuitous results and some negative, but overall its safe to say things would have gone alot smoother and there'd be more Alexandrians alive.
     
    #39 Adam Poole, Feb 19, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016
  20. Puhnesq

    Puhnesq Member

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    Ah yes I forgot that Carol shooting him was what got him killed, so I pretty much have to agree then. At the very least, the fact that he told Denise to run as he was dying is still a sign of some sort of change (however small it may be) to me.
     
    #40 Puhnesq, Feb 19, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2016

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