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My reaction!

Discussion in 'Episode 412 - Still' started by Caryl, Mar 3, 2014.

  1. legendx66

    legendx66 Moderator
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    I like the structure that's why. I don't think they need to but I think it shouldn't be written off. This told a complete story. The isolation of the groups is the central theme. It's a stylistic choice not necessity. The argument that it NEEDED to do this is something I dont agree with. They wanted to do this IMO and I prefer it. It's obviously not the norm in past seasons and reuniting is going to be an important part of this season. It's an intentional isolated event not some key failing. That's my point. Season 5 and the end here will surely not follow the structure. Inmates actually received hate for not focusing on fewer groups.

    GOT is undeniably excellent but knowing the endpoint makes it much easier. I know what will happen in season 4 already. More time for execution when you don't start from scratch with the story.

    I edited my other post too late. There is more to that if you'd like to read it.
     
  2. Caryl

    Caryl Member

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    Oh I've started to watch others I just stopped because they were bad. Lost, True Blood, Castle, to name a few. Oh and the Sopranos. I really like TWD. I know we're talking it to death but I still like the show. I just have rarely come away from so many episodes with this nagging feeling of frustration as I have with this show. Still just kind of brought it all to a head. I plan to watch True Detective one of these days.
     
  3. legendx66

    legendx66 Moderator
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    Sopranos is another largely considered excellent show. It's just preference how it goes sometimes. True Detective is the best written show period in years IMO. It's blowing me away. Watch if you can
     
  4. Caryl

    Caryl Member

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    I liked Inmates. I thought it was well done. We needed to be caught up on the other groups and I thought the staggered times of each group was very clever. Beth and Daryl's was the weakest group. I didn't really like so much build up with Maggie finding out Glen wasn't on the bus when we knew he was alive but those were my main gripes.

    Needing or wanting they still did it and it was bad. I lean towards need because who would have given a crap if Beth died outside of a her relatively tiny fan base? Same thing with giving her a bigger part. That needed to be justified as to why she gets it vs other characters because you know they can't keep this bloated cast for much longer. Characters who are IMO written and acted much better. They took a glorified extra and told us why we should care about her from here out. Told rather than showed. Whether they needed to or wanted to is secondary. They did and IMO it was done poorly for reasons I've explained repeatedly.
     
  5. Caryl

    Caryl Member

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    It's been a while but I remember really liking the Sopranos. Adriana was my favorite! I think all the True Detective episodes are on OnDemand still so I'll get to them soon.
     
  6. legendx66

    legendx66 Moderator
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    That's where we differ. The argument and porch talk was one of the finest bits of work I've seen on this show and in general. The other half had decent action and some excellent symbolism (plus serious nods to a comic reader who expects something coming up). Those excellent scenes showed us why Beth is a valuable character IMO. I don't think not elevating new characters to the spotlight because they aren't popular before they are in a good reason. Why would they be popular if they haven't become important yet? Small background types are never popular until they are used.
     
  7. Caryl

    Caryl Member

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    LOL well we definitely differ. I thought the argument was poorly done. I didn't like how Daryl roughed her up. That was gratuitous even though it was relatively mild. It still didn't sit right with me and wasn't necessary. Daryl's anger seemed to be directed more towards her than just an outburst that was simmering and finally taken out on the nearest person. He has no reason to be angry at Beth or so vicious. The circumstances, yes, but I felt the aggression towards her was just odd. Kinney didn't sell me on any of the emotions she tried to display. I felt like I was watching someone trying to act. Reedus is a better actor than Kinney and maybe she just couldn't match his intensity and rise to his level. Maybe that's why I hated it so much. IDK, it just fell really flat for me.
     
  8. SFA

    SFA Well-Known Member

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    I was being sarcastic. My point being that people don't always act logically and often put themselves in situations that are needlessly dangerous. Be it everyday life, war or a zombie apocalypse.

    If I remember correctly, they had a mutual agreement to take care of it on the following day. Rick wouldn't have sit on it if it was an emergency. It was a since of guilt that made her go out there. She was acting on emotions and being impulsive. Just like Beth and later Daryl.

    Agreed on flipping the water over.

    Edit: A lot of discussion has went by since the post you quoted. I was referring strictly to the booze run idea.
     
    #128 SFA, Mar 5, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
  9. trinity

    trinity Member

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    We learned Drinking is in Beth's blood, Just like Daddy! and Daryl is not house broken, Really peeps stop your bitching..
     
  10. Alina

    Alina Well-Known Member

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    Ha ha ha. Good one.
     
  11. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    They've done a great job with Carol this season. I'm really looking forward to seeing where her story goes. It would be a disappointment if they bring so briefly in 4B and then kill her off. I hope she lasts into next season. Her new outlook countered Rick's nicely. It brought a similar friction as we saw between Shane and Rick. I liked her line to him about how he didn't have to agree with it, he just needed to deal with it.

    But whow knows, perhaps after the attack of the Governor Rick will be seeing things a bit differently now too. He has pendulumed back forth in his approach too throughout the series.
     
  12. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    I think the most plausible thing to do would be to look for her sister. Their journey just doesn't make sense. Tyreese and Carol are worried about getting the kids to safety. As always, Rick is focused on Carl. Glenn's group is now searching for Maggie and Maggie is looking for Glenn. All of that is plausible. Beth's journey isn't. She's supposed to around 17 on the show, and her Dad is now dead. You would think she'd be trying to find her only living relative, or at least voicing the desire to do so.
     
  13. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    A large cast can become difficult. Lost really took on too much and failed in the end with it.

    What I think is the most significant problem with the episode is that they focused on just Daryl and Beth and it wasn't necessary. There wasn't enough material for a full show. Even the main character Rick split time with Michonne in After. So 412 wouldn't have been so bad if we had mixed it up with another group. It's like the episode in Season 2 where we had Rick and Shane out on the road with Randall, and they kept switching back to what was going on at the farm. An episode with just those characters from the farm most likely wouldn't have worked.
     
  14. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    I'm not one of those who has anything against the Daryl character, but if I had to guess I think they did this episode because he has such a strong rabid fanbase. It feels like an attempt to spotlight him, particularly since he wasn't as prominent in the early episodes.
     
  15. Moral Compass

    Moral Compass Member

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    You have a valid point, but cars need fuel. I'm pretty sure after a while, gasoline expires, and it's been something like two years since the start of the apocalypse. It must be getting hard to come by usable fuel.
     
  16. Prophecy

    Prophecy Member

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    Not much I can say that hasn't been said a hundred times before in multiple other threads on why writers do certain things. I find myself explaining realistic situations far too often these days because people always resort to "this show is going down hill". Episodes like this can either be someone's trash or another persons treasure.

    I will say regarding the Beth booze run, I enjoyed the idea, and the episode. But again, you have to put yourself in her situation. A young teenage girl in the middle of the woods, with nothing left to live for, her sisters gone, her fathers dead, and she is a young adult woman who has been sheltered her whole life. Beth knows she doesn't have much time left on this planet, so why not at least "try" to do things that you've always wanted to do but never had the chance too - instead of sitting around in the woods waiting for your inevitable death.

    Daryl realizes this and finally helps her get her first drink of alcohol, so she can at least say she did "something" she has always wanted to try before she dies. I believe she even said something along the lines of "what else are we gonna do?" At least it made Daryl leave camp to look for surivivors or supplies while helping Beth try something in life.

    Why that is so hard for some people to realize (or some form of that with regards to this episode and their decisions). Episodes like this, people need to accept why characters do certain things, and not always have this knee-jerk reaction.

    Edit: I really should also add I thought this episode definately could and "should" have been split or cut. I agree that most scenes and some dialogues were extended clearly for filler (which TWD rarely use to do). Focusing on Daryl and Beth in this specific situation did not warrant an entire episode, and that I can clearly agree with.
     
    #136 Prophecy, Mar 5, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
  17. STRINGS

    STRINGS Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    #137 STRINGS, Mar 5, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
  18. legendx66

    legendx66 Moderator
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    See episode 10 or all of the argument. The entire journey was a result of Beth's frustration that Daryl gave up on them. They both just kept raising the friction until they exploded and Beth finally convinced him.
     
    #138 legendx66, Mar 5, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
  19. Caryl

    Caryl Member

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    I think she's been given a really interesting story this season. The problem is she's been absent for almost all of it. They still haven't properly attoned for how terribly they've handled their female characters in the past. Even with MIchonne it's like they don't really know what to do with her. Last season she was a brooding silent characature but so badass and this season they're trying to tone down the badass and make her more human by this friendship thing she has going with Carl.

    If the big reveal of all this big cliffhanger turns out to be mediocre it's going to be such a disappointment. They better make it worth as much filler as there's been this season. As is this season doesn't have much going for it in terms of big storylines. The flu, loss of the prison and everyone being scattered, and the unresolved Carol-Rick-Daryl-Tyreese conflict. That's it. Hershel's death was a big deal but it was something that happened rather than an ongoing story.
     
  20. Brooklynn

    Brooklynn Member

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    How is that not knowing what to do with her? I think her eventually opening up and forming relationships is natural. Surely you didn't think she would stay closed off forever after spending so much time with these people. The relationship with Carl makes perfect sense since he was the one that first accepted her.

    I think they are doing just fine with Michonne and Scott Gimple has handled her very well. I think her bad ass level has remained the same, but she is developing relationships and letting people in now. She's basically a more open women who adores Carl and she's caring. She's become all of that, but still is a great fighter and strong clever woman. She's very well rounded and Scott has done a great job with that.
     
    #140 Brooklynn, Mar 5, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014

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