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Negan's flaw in operation.

Discussion in 'Episode 708 - Hearts Still Beating' started by Ionut, Dec 12, 2016.

  1. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is a perfect summation, in my opinion. But, as rustybag said, technically, going by today's terms they both have Antisocial Personality. The good thing about the new term is that it makes clear that Antisocial Personality is someone's basic personality, not something that therapy will change. But these two men are a good illustration for why I still like the old terms. Negan is so much further along the spectrum.

    Everyone has some traces of a few of the Antisocial Personality traits, and that reality can help them go unnoticed by many. It is the number of traits and the extreme degree that sets them apart.

    When I watch movies about invasions of malicious aliens, sometimes I reflect, They are already here, they already walk amongst us.
     
  2. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    LOL. Yes, it is. But Ionut is very thorough, and that was for him. :)
     
  3. Zvivor

    Zvivor Well-Known Member

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    I had a partner who was a Ph.D. psychologist. He was firmly of the believe that psychopaths and sociopaths are born that way. He told me some stories about real-life toddlers on trikes that were truly scary as to this theory.
     
  4. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    Much appreciated :)

    Negan is very thorough and the first 5 items on the list fit his character profile to the detail. Definitely not too much.
     
  5. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    Like anything you have a percentage of nature and nurture. I would agree that the traits are by nature and that the development is the primary factor in personality evolution and good/evil alignment with those traits.

    I agree with Lindingo that a lot of them are walking among us -- with varying degree's. I'm most interested in the spectrum, because you have people with the traits of both in mild form that were brought up properly that are not terrible people, some even becoming successful and great people that don't harm others. The qualities of absurd self assured ego and a lack of emotional empathy in someone who's not evil sometimes creates a very bold and brave person that accomplishes big things.

    Then you've also got Negan's and Joseph Stalin's and all kinds of psycho abusive crazies etc...

    The scale of it is fascinating to me and I dislike black & white thinking.
     
  6. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    Ooooh. I wish I could hear his stories. I also think they are born that way, but they don't necessarily need to develop that way.

    You have probably already heard of this researcher who discovered that his own brain showed all of the signs of a psychopath. I've seen him a couple of times on TV. He's always so interesting.

    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...who-discovered-he-was-a-psychopath-180947814/
    [FONT=&amp]Many of us would hide this discovery and never tell a soul, out of fear or embarrassment of being labeled a psychopath. Perhaps because boldness and disinhibition are noted psychopathic tendencies, Fallon has gone all in towards the opposite direction, telling the world about his finding in a TED Talk, an NPR interview and now a new book published last month, The Psychopath Inside. In it, Fallon seeks to reconcile how he—a happily married family man—could demonstrate the same anatomical patterns that marked the minds of serial killers.
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp]“I’ve never killed anybody, or raped anyone,” he says. “So the first thing I thought was that maybe my hypothesis was wrong, and that these brain areas are not reflective of psychopathy or murderous behavior.”
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp]But when he underwent a series of genetic tests, he got more bad news. “I had all these high-risk alleles for aggression, violence and low empathy,” he says, such as a variant of the MAO-A gene that has been linked with aggressive behavior. Eventually, based on further neurological and behavioral research into psychopathy, he decided he was indeed a psychopath—just a relatively good kind, what he and others call a “pro-social psychopath,” someone who has difficulty feeling true empathy for others but still keeps his behavior roughly within socially-acceptable bounds.
    [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp]It wasn’t entirely a shock to Fallon, as he’d always been aware that he was someone especially motivated by power and manipulating others, he says. Additionally, his family line included seven alleged murderers, including Lizzie Borden, infamously accused of killing her father and stepmother in 1892.[/FONT]
     
  7. Zvivor

    Zvivor Well-Known Member

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    Fascinating. Thanks for the additional information and discussion. Personally -- just based on ligr experiences --I do think there is a difference between sociopaths who are just out for number one and shed no tears over those who are not strong enough to compete with their tactics, fair or unfair and malignant murderous psychopaths who enjoy killing, maiming, and harming others. Lots of successful and super-successful people in life are probably sociopaths. Negan is clearly a psychopath who enjoys maiming and murdering others.

    And yes, I did read about, and also see a tv interview of the psychologist(?-don't recall his credentials)who found a pattern within brain scans of sociopaths, which he shared. As I recalled, he said that when he told his family about it, they said -- of course, we always knew this about you. So what his research did not distinguish was between those sociopaths who would enjoy harming others physically or otherwise and those who simply did not do so, but didn't give it a thought. I wonder if science will ever figure this out.
     
  8. Zvivor

    Zvivor Well-Known Member

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    Post-script: The one story my partner told me that I most recall is of a 3 year old little boy. This child rode his tricycle over the feet of, or into, other children with delight and no amount of parental punishment or psychological intervention changed his behavior.
     
  9. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    [MENTION=5347]Zvivor[/MENTION], the show where he said his relatives said they had always seen darkness in him is one of the shows I saw, too. The same comment sticks with us both.
     
  10. NoMora

    NoMora Active Member

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    Two years ago, I watched a long documentary about a psychopath who had allowed the reporters to accompany him and to document his character. They were even allowed to speak with the psychiatrist who treated the man.
    This psychopath was not a criminal and not violent, yet he said himself that he feels no compassion at all for others, neither for people nor for animals.
    He had no intention to physically harm others but he made clear to one of the reporters that anyone who would ever piss him off in any way would pay for it. Meaning that he would do anything in his powers to destroy that person's life in every (physically non-violent) way. As a matter of fact, he had done this several times with others who made the slightest mistake (in his opinion).
    He even warned the documentary team to not make a mistake. What he demanded was complete respect towards him.
    Any even so mild insult would easily arouse his "anger" - which would be the wrong term sinde he actually didn't feel real anger but more some kind of hurt pride and lack of respect.
    He said that any person who would ever be in his way would not get happy ever again.
    Even a wrong question by the team or the psychiatrist could push him over the edge.

    He was a very successful business man (can't remember if he had children). His wife knew of his psychopathy, and he only accepted her as his wife because he thought they somplemented each other. But he made clear that he could only accept her as long as she recognized his genius and accepted him, no matter what. Any flaw in that would have caused his "anger" and revenge.

    It was fascinating but also quite scary. People around him had to handle him with kid gloves, which, of course, is impossible. You would have to be a mind reader to know what to say at the right time and when to be silent.

    Then there was another story of a woman who witnessed a heavy accident with a kid and all she could think about was not getting any blood on her shoes while the mother was crying in panic. This was the very reason why she went to a psychologist to find out what was wrong with her. She was diagnosed as a psychopath, yet a "mild" one who had no interest in really harming others. She was calm and not capable of real empathy. The injury of the shild did not touch her at all.

    It's sometimes hard to figure who is a psychopath or sociopath or just someone with a short temper or numb due to some kind of traumata and shock.

    Scientists have found out (long time ago) that in the brains of true psychopaths the regions of the brain that are responsible for a conscience and for empathy are somehow dead. Inactive, so to speak. And, according to them, people are born that way, exccept when they had a stroke or accident that caused brain damage.
     
  11. J K

    J K Member

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    Negan has been perfectly reasonable to Rick an co., actually has done them a few favors. How many of Negan's group did Rick take out at the satellite station and Darryl's RPG blast? Yeah a shit ton of em, Rick and the entire group are still alive only though his good graces, I would have wiped out all of the ASZ and took it over for myself. Hell he even let Carl live and brought him back, killed what's her face that apparently eats a lot and even took out that back stabbing shit Spencer. I'd go as far to say Negan has been bending over backwards for Rick. Negan needs to subjugate and kill a ton more of Ricks group to come close to the damage Rick has done to him.
     
  12. Zvivor

    Zvivor Well-Known Member

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    Fascinating.
     
  13. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    The thing is though that's not Negan's game. He's let EVERY strong person live. Daryl, Rick, Carl, Rosita... everyone who's shown "fight" he's let live. He kills the nobodies and the weak. Whether that makes long-term sense or not is a different question, but maybe he's come to realize that groups like Rick's who have been surviving on their own can wipe the floor with an equal number of his Saviors and he doesn't like it.

    Or maybe he just prefers the company of people who fight. Or likes to break people who fight so much he can't bring himself to kill them.

    From the Saviors' perspective, I don't think what they did was particularly bad. Aaron brought them supplies and had a big middle finger note in the box. Remembering that Rick's group has just killed off the group of 10 motorcycle thugs, and all the guys in the t.v. station, a sign of blatant resistance like that would be stomped out pretty quickly, IMO.

    And if you were in Negan's army, would you believe Aaron when he said, "I don't know how that got in there"?
     
  14. NoMora

    NoMora Active Member

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    I would have. But then, if I were one of Negan's loyal followers I surely would be too ignorant towards common sense and the needs of others.
    If they were normal people who don't run around tormenting and killing others, they would have figured that nobody would be stupid enough to leave such a note in the box, knowing very well that someone like Negan wouldn't let go of it (had he seen it).
    They also would be able to put themselves in Rick's shoes and see why they killed the people at the outpost and the bikers. Not that it would be okay or that it's right or justified.
    Yet they would ask themselves what they would have done. They would be able to see that every person has to do things to defend themselves from deadly threats, not to mention self defense when the bikers were about to kill them on the road.

    But those followers are simply so self-absorbed and incapable of the slightest empathy that they just can't see the most simple things and can't follow logic.
    Or they actually didn't really care whether or not Aaron put the note in the box but simply were in the mood of beating somebody up.
    Those people are nothing but cruel a***holes, probably as psychotic as Negan is.
     
  15. Morgotha

    Morgotha Well-Known Member

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    Either Rick or Aaron DID put the note in the box, though. Not intentionally, I'm sure, but they could have ripped it up when they read it rather than setting it down where it somehow got into the box. I'd bet there ARE people who would put a note like that in the box to "prove a point" to Negan's followers.

    Given that Rick's people have killed a bunch of Saviors, maybe the Savior guy was just a little bit afraid that he would be next when he saw that note (although he wouldn't have admitted that consciously to himself) and took that out on Aaron.

    I agree completely with the part about "maybe he just wanted to beat someone up" - that couldn't fight back, of course! I think that's a realistic explanation as well.
     
  16. 8307c4

    8307c4 Well-Known Member

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    This is probably going to come as a surprise to most people but Negan suffers from Fatal DA disease, he has had this malady since birth and most people who catch this particular strain will die an early and sometimes horrible death as a result.
     

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