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Oceanside's story about the Saviors

Discussion in 'Episode 706 - Swear' started by DragonRacer, Nov 28, 2016.

  1. DragonRacer

    DragonRacer Well-Known Member

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    Setting aside the fact that while the Saviors are douchebags in the comics, the group as a whole never came off nearly as heinous as the show has decided to go...

    ... there are some things about Oceanside's (TV only) story that are making me scratch my head, now that I've had a night to think on it and process it.

    1. What on God's green Earth did the Oceanside community DO, exactly, to warrant having all of their males aged 10 and older lined up and executed? TV Negan, like his comic counterpart, clearly says that his main goal isn't actually to murder people - he wants people to work for him. Yes, he achieves this by killing one community member at the start to set his tone, but less living people overall means less shit collected for his Saviors. So, he's not exactly one to hit the full nuclear button on a community. On the show, Rick's group killed AN ENTIRE SAVIOR OUTPOST IN THEIR SLEEP - and, yet, Negan was only going to kill ONE member of Team Family in response (#2 wasn't planned). If you can kill an entire outpost and not have all your men slaughtered in response, what in the world did Oceanside do? Either something tremendous/repeated OR this was a Savior outpost that's gone rogue and on a power trip (and no longer represents Negan or the Saviors as a whole anymore as a result) OR the story is bogus.

    2. Why the age distinction? The woman says all men ages 10 and older were executed. Why is an age thrown out there? This would imply that there were boys younger than 10 present who were not killed. Where are they? We see none of them in the colony, unless they've got them locked up somewhere for safe-keeping (but if so, why not lock up your young girls, too, who are clearly outside learning skills). If the Saviors took them to raise them as little Savior army recruits, surely the woman would have said their men were executed and their boys were kidnapped? If there weren't boys younger than 10, wouldn't she have simply said the Saviors killed ALL of their men (which is horrible enough on its own)? Why is an age even thrown out there unless it's just writing to escalate "Saviors evil, everyone else good" into the audience's head?
     
  2. lastcat3

    lastcat3 Well-Known Member

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    This just kind of goes along with the problems I have been having with the show this season. I saw this again as not much more than them continuing to beat the audience over the head over just how evil Negan and the saviors are supposed to be.

    Though we don't know exactly what the Oceanside community did chances are very slim what they did would have been any worse than what Rick's group did. Yet they get all their men executed and all Rick's group got were two of their guys killed (and would have only been one if Daryl supposedly didn't act up).

    The only conclusion we can really make at this point is that Rick's group wasn't killed simply because they are the main characters of the show.

    I don't know. I am just beginning to feel like this series has past its prime. I liked this episode simply because it was a brand new take on the universe but the way they tried to tie it into the saviors felt very underwhelming.
     
    #2 lastcat3, Nov 28, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  3. Blueman

    Blueman Well-Known Member

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    As far as the boys younger than age 10 go, I think when Tara was at the community, there were a group of 3 children running around. It was so quick and I think I saw 2 girls and 1 boy. Not sure though.
     
  4. JEA13

    JEA13 Well-Known Member

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    I thought I saw a boy also but wont swear to it.
     
  5. Duce000

    Duce000 Active Member

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    I'm guessing that Oceanside was already under Negan's rule when they decided to fight back. Rick and them weren't. I think that's the big difference. But the girl did say that the women were suppose to continue supplying the saviors but they ran away in the middle of the night so Negan probably thought he would have all the women working for him and no threat of the men trying to fight back anymore

    As far as the age thing I'm not sure.
     
  6. Terminator

    Terminator Well-Known Member

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    1) Maybe the Saviours raid on the Oceanside people was early on and since then Negan has realized it's counterproducutive to kill large numbers of people. He also told Rick he didn't like killing women, but could kill men all day long.

    2) I'm pretty sure I saw a little boy running around when Tara first started snooping. 3 kids ran out of a building and I thought the smallest was a boy. Kind of related to the first point, but maybe early on Negan was thinking of killing any male who had reached puberty and as a result the younger ones would be indoctrinated into his method of operations by the time they were mature enough to have kids of their own. Might be a stretch.
     
  7. Lori Grimes

    Lori Grimes Active Member

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    I lolled at DragonRacer's location
     
  8. Expat-N-America

    Expat-N-America Active Member

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    Seemed like this altercation happened quite a while ago, enough time for them to take off and establish a whole new community and get set up. Probably before Negan "perfected" his method of just killing one to get the rest to work for him. I can kinda buy that.
     
  9. Lummsy200

    Lummsy200 Member

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    A combo of what Duce000 and Terminator stated. They fought back (one of the ladies said so) and it was probably early on.
     
  10. Marc

    Marc Well-Known Member

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    I agree, they could be a PRO women community to the extreme, or not. Negan can also be a man who sways, a man of mood who do as he please at the moment. Something is shifty with the place but we wait and see.

    The odd part is indeed, killinga full outpost and him later learning that it was Ricks gang who blew up "Timmy" and his bikers, and he did not flinch. So what did Oceanside do? Or was it just a bad day for Negan?
     
  11. Znuts

    Znuts Member

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    I think Negan could have killed off all the men. Then all the women ran away leaving him down on supplies and one less group to exploit. Negan may have realized he can only push so far before these groups will just up and leave. He needs these groups to stick around and work for him, so it seems he may have adjusted his tactics.
     
  12. CSFurious

    CSFurious Member

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    i would just enjoy the show

    don't think so much
     
  13. EZD

    EZD Well-Known Member

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    I think this is really just a big game for negan and Rick & Co. were only starting to be players once the lineup took place.
    Negan seems to respect and admire our group overall for the skills they have and will not just terminate them at random because he thinks he can use them if he can control them.

    Who knows what went down with the women before,they sure will not lay any foundation for it so we can know.

    I will bet that we will know more when the rest of our group get in front of this community and they cry out that they are like the Saviors or something otherwise morally righteous like we are starting to get pelted with in many episodes these days.
     
  14. Lindigo

    Lindigo Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe they just lined up everyone they wanted to kill, including tall boys. When it was over, the women knew the age of the oldest boy who had survived, so that's how they describe it.
     
  15. jackson04

    jackson04 Active Member

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    ^
    This, or the oceanside group is lying somehow. I don't trust none of these people!!!! I also think that maybe they had the women captured and using them to rape, and somehow they got away maybe?!?! And the men are still alive out there?!?!? I don't know it left me scratching my head. Scott Gimple needs to make things a little more clear.

    And take note of my avi. That is what I want to do to Scott Gimple after this episode. :Grin:
     
  16. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    Well, Negan is all about Rules. At the time Rick's group killed everyone in the outpost, they hadn't established any rules yet. Rick's group hadn't been brought into the fold yet. They still just needed to be 'taught'. Once a group has been brought under Negan's control, if they THEN try to fight or attack Negan's group, they get decimated. its the same thing that happened to the library group. He killed every last one of them. If, at this point, after ASZ is under Negan's control, they now try to fight, and kill Negan's men, they'd probably be decimated...at least several of them would be executed.
     
  17. EZD

    EZD Well-Known Member

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    And this is what I was trying to say too!

    That Neuro is a real Go Getter!
     
  18. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    There will probably be an exception to this rule though, as we shall see.

     
  19. Jen7

    Jen7 Well-Known Member

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    So far my understanding of TV Negan is that he assesses what each group can do for him and he goes from there. Alexandrians had a reputation that preceded them as being scrappy "go-getters". They have an established community, the fighting skills to take out many of Negan's men, and the ability to hunt and scavenge food & supplies. So Negan wants them mostly alive so they can continue providing for him. He started by executing just enough men to keep them in check. Same with the Kingdom and Hilltop.

    Perhaps when he came across the ladies of Oceanside and their men, he only saw that the women were useful as his wives and decided there was no use in keeping the men and boys. They may have been weak, defiant, or both. He probably saw it as an opportunity to fill up his p*ssy buffet.

    As for the 10 & up thing, i did think that was a little random...
     
  20. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    I just took the 10 and up thing to mean that they killed all the males who were old enough be aggressors. I think in dialogue it was said that the reason the men were killed was because they tried to attack or fight Negan's group. And yeah, they probably also weren't as useful at Rick's group, so they just decided to eliminate the threat, and leave the women to continue to work for them.
     

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