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Discussion in 'Episode 1105 - Out Of The Ashes' started by BlackBird, Sep 20, 2021.

  1. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    After such strong opening with four really good episodes, I spent most of this one raising my brows and rolling my eyes.

    Stuff I really didn't want to see:

    More bloody Whisperers. More torture. Especially conducted by the two most kind hearted people on the show. More annoying kids being stupid and obnoxious. And traces of sexual tension between Negan and Maggie instead of finally a proper conversation. Good lord.

    Further points deducted:

    For Gracie literally looking like this was her very first lesson. For the Commonwealth’s nauseating orientation video. For this whole ridiculous Stephanie plot (she’s obviously not the real Stephanie - right?)

    FOR APPARENTLY NOONE ON WATCH in Alexandria! Jerry needing to spot a huge gap in the wall and walkers strolling about whilst taking a morning piss?

    Saving graces:

    Judith being awesome.
    Aunt Rosita comforting Judith.
    Carol being reflective.
    Princess/Mercer flirting.

    For these I’m going with a generous 4.
     
  2. Blueman

    Blueman Well-Known Member

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    The curly hair teenager is Vincent. He is there to show us how awesome Judith is. And I love to see Gracie and Hershel Jr (or was it Rick Jr?) giving support to Judith.

    I do not mind more Whisperers if it serves a plot development. If it is not and is just a context to give Aaron and Jerry some acting, then it is stupid writing. I wonder if Carol's kindness to that Whisperer (and his gang of 3 or 4) would be fruitful in the future. Or, will Aaron proved to be right that the Whisperer cannot be trusted? I look forward if this line will get developed.

    That Stephanie is real Stephanie, I think. Well, at least the Credits say she is. The interesting part for me is Yumiko's question to her brother ''Is this place as good as it seems to be?'' As a non-comic reader, I wonder could there be some 'darkness' of this community? The entire community cannot be bad and evil but maybe some higher level people. Could this Ms Milton having the title 'Governor' points back to the Governor?
    And, of course, one mystery is why Yumiko's brother hid his identity of a surgeon? Maybe his real hobby is bakery but why he does not identify himself as a doctor?

    Overall, I give this a 7.5
     
  3. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    Negan is like the audience now to Maggie....can't we just put this behind us and get on with the show?

    Her actions make no sense. She's antagonizing the guy constantly while being alone with him. He could simply kill her and move on. No one would know the difference. Obviously he's changed or he would've done just that. So can't we settle on her always hating him because he killed Glenn and then just work for the common good? Everyone else did that with Negan last season during the fight against the Whisperers. Imagine if every character had been this way to him. It would've been tedious.

    And this all just leaves you disliking Maggie's character. They shouldn't have even brought her back if this was the plan.

    I didn't mind the Aaron stuff because he has PTSD from the war with the Whisperers.

    The kids tormenting Judith was ridiculous. They were much older than her too. It didn't make sense and was poor filler. There's a lot more you can do with Judith than that.

    I won't comment on the Commonwealth because I simply loathe that whole scene.

    We finally found out something on Connie with only 3 episodes left in this part of the season. From the preview, what I feared last season appears to be happening. That idiot Virgil is holding her captive. He was terrible in the Michonne episode. That should've been it with him. But now we get to suffer with him for at least one more episode. They should've just had Connie with those Whisperers and freed her then.

    So, the show is limping to the finale.
     
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  4. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    Overall, I really was disappointed in the episode.
    I didnt care for the kids picking on Judith. The show has already done that with Carl, kids at the prison, Henry, and Lydia.
    They could have showed Judith’s badassness some other way.

    Never considered the interaction between Maggie & Negan leading up to something more.
    Now that would be a plot twist.

    The whole whisper thing was boring. But I do understand that it was the way they chose to finding Connie.

    I give the episode a 5.


    The truth is out there
     
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  5. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    You’re making me come round regarding the Whisperers - I’m prepared to give the storyline the benefit of the doubt, that it would still lead somewhere. I’m not sure Carol’s kindness cancelled out the hand-biting incident but we’ll see.

    He seemed to be saying something about not being happy in the old life, perhaps too much stress? And finally the apocalypse gave him a chance to live out his dream of being a baker - a bit like a decade long extended Covid lockdown? The whole thing is surreal. Surely surgeons should be in highest demand. He might even get into trouble for not disclosing this part of his skill set with the administration?

    Ha! This is The Walking Dead. There shall be darkness, plenty. I’ve not read the comics either but already getting some very unpleasant vibes. When you need to sugar coat your orientation video so much that you practically get diabetes after one watch, there is something not right. They’re already making quite a bit of social status - nice connection with the graffiti Daryl saw in the subway. I think this will be Society where there’s a definite hierarchy, just like the Saviors. But with the Saviors it was decided on levels of badassery, here it seems to be established based on social status pre-apocalypse. Really weird that still applies to people who have just arrived and their past ten years of survival experience seems not treated with much interest or given importance.
     
  6. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    I’m waiting for a PROPER, intelligent conversation between them. If no one is killing the other, (and the time for that is now well passed so it’s annoying to string it out further) than they need to clear a few things.
    Negan needs to dig deep with some apologies and Maggie with her understanding, and then, like you said, somehow they need to find a way to work together.

    It is true. I’m coming round on this.

    I’m at a loss with this community. Like walking into a 70s soap opera. Totally surreal. Woodbury was bad enough but this is like Woodbury on magic mushrooms.

    I hope I’m not spoiling much by saying: he isn’t. That’s not what is going on.
     
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  7. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    Comic Commonwealth is sort of like the real world.
    A set of different rules for different social standings.


    The truth is out there
     
  8. BlackBird

    BlackBird Well-Known Member

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    And is comic book Commonwealth as cheesy as the tv Commonwealth?
     
  9. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    Guess it depends on your version of cheesy.

    I got the whole “stepford wives” vibe from their ad


    The truth is out there
     
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  10. Blueman

    Blueman Well-Known Member

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    This could surely be.
    It seems the Commonwealth is a community with a strong caste system. When Yumiko first asked the clerk about her job assignment letter, the clerk did not even look up and gave a cold respond. But when Yumiko showed her 'letter of invitation' to chat with the 'Office of State Affairs', the clerk's attitude changed 180 degrees as he perceived Yumiko is someone going to be high in the heirarchy! I imagine, the higher in the social/political ladder one is, the more privilege and authority one has.
    And I suppose a surgeon is much higher in the caste system than a baker. So, Yumiko's brother is willing to live (with probably much less social benefits) as a baker than as a surgeon. (I am just thinking, maybe a surgeon (or anyone with a medical background) might be 'forced' to do research on the walker virus, which might be a pungent, disgusting and even immoral job?)
     
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  11. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad you somewhat spoiled that because I'd be really annoyed if we had another situation where Virgil is capturing someone.

    If they were going to take this route they should've at least had Maggie and Negan go their separate ways once they were the only two left. With her current attitude that would make more sense. Why doesn't she just tell him to go back to Alexandria with the food they have? She can wait there too for the others. She doesn't need him there. Why be around someone constantly that you supposedly want to kill?

    The drama for the sake of drama drives me crazy.
     
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  12. Stealth

    Stealth Well-Known Member

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    Well, I disliked the comic Commonwealth and I loathe the TV version. So for me it's cheesier. They needed to tone it down a bit.

    It doesn't help the show either that the situation in Alexandria is currently so dire, and then on the flipside you have the Commonwealth. In the comics Alexandria rebounded quickly after the Whisperers.
     
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  13. Sharpie61

    Sharpie61 Well-Known Member

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    Her brother was a thoracic surgeon. I foresee him saving Zekes life, and removing the cancer


    The truth is out there
     
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  14. Blueman

    Blueman Well-Known Member

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    Ah, how convenience! I think, a baker-turns-surgeon might incur some repercussions for lying to the Commonwealth. Might be Tomi is not willing and so this puts Yumiko into a dilemma, exposing her brother's profession to save Zeke or not.
     
  15. ChrisAnn

    ChrisAnn Member

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    I bet you're right Sharpie.
     
  16. Terminator

    Terminator Well-Known Member

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    I liked this episode, as I've liked the season so far. I thought this one gave us a good catch up on a couple of storylines. Couple of points.
    1) Why is a surgeon working as a baker in a ZA? Wouldn't his medical skills be a better use of him?
    2) I didn't mind the Whisperer thing. It was kind of naive to think they all had been killed. And as mentioned above, it gave a good link to giving a clue about Connie. But I expect that's the last we'll see of them.
    3) Interesting to see good Aaron going all out on the Whisperer and Carol trying to reel him in.
    4) Agree that it seemed odd there were no guards in Alexandria watching for walker breeches when the walls are so frail.

    I've already seen the next episode and won't spoil anything, but it's pretty awesome for the most part. Be interesting to see the comments.
     
  17. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    Managed to finally view this episode. I’m giving it a neutral five.
    I got a big kick out of the Commonwealth orientation tape cause it felt so early Disney-ish. It seems to me that all these seemingly rather big and secure communities that we’ve come into contact with, like Woodbury, or the original ASZ have bent over backwards to give their people the best of what they lost when the “world” fell apart. Whether or not they had some dark secret depended on who founded the community. We’ll have to wait to see what kind of individuals these Miltons (I think that was their name) are.

    No community will be perfect, but I wonder if it’s a trade off in this world to subvert a bit of your freedom for security. Sometimes it’s obvious that it’s just not right like when you saw how Negan ran the Saviors or Alpha the Whisperers but it’s not always such an overt observation with other settlements. I’m actually looking forward to seeing more of how the Commonwealth works.

    I’m especially interested in seeing how our little group will be dealt with concerning their “crimes”. I was a bit surprised that they acted so soon to contact ASZ. Why not get more of a lay of the land before putting themselves in a position to possibly be banished for good? I know they felt time was of the essence but it’s going to come out now that Eugene was fibbing about having no previous group affiliation and how’s that gonna play? My word, Aaron is freaking out about whether or not the Whisperer was telling the truth. It comes down to whether or not someone can be trusted to not harm the core settlement. I’m sure the Commonwealth is equally committed to making sure they haven’t let a fox into the hen house too so to speak.

    The question for me is what is better for our survivors, who we see are having a difficult time maintaining both food and security. Should our four newly processed asylum seekers ask for help or petition the Commonwealth for all the others they left behind to be admitted?

    Back at ASZ, I felt for Judith. Who the hell are those bully boys parents and where are they? Why are they left to run around ASZ like it’s Lord of the Flies? Surely they’re old enough to start training for some useful job that doesn’t involve baiting zombies which seems to be a popular pastime, as we’ve seen previously, of many a young man. I think the adults need to remember the old adage about idle hands. Maybe that’s the best argument of all for ASZ to be assimilated into the Commonwealth if at all possible.

    I’m also wondering whether or not the Commonwealth is the group that picked up Rick? Or do they have any affiliation with it?

    Meanwhile, I was thrilled that Aaron, Carol et.al. were tipped off that Connie was seen alive which means a reunion is in the works……I hope.

    I was also thrilled we got a bit of a break from Pope and those nutters. I’m also not sure what to make of this Maggie/Negan dynamic as they spend more time together or what’s going on with Miko’s brother. *sigh*
     
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  18. Blueman

    Blueman Well-Known Member

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    I think they acted so soon because they did not know that the war with the Whisperers was over and ASZ won. In their mind, they (Eugene most of all) had to be thinking that the war was still going on intensely. One day is too long when your friends (aka family) are dying.
     
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  19. purriwinkle

    purriwinkle Well-Known Member

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    I understand that, however, what was the purpose of Eugene using the radio to “call home”? I can only think it was to let the others know all was ok but why didn’t he have Stephanie contact them in a safer way? She talked with Eugene for some time without being detected so it stands to reason that she would have had access…..unless they revoked her radio privileges after Eugene told his interviewers he had been talking to her. However, didn’t she have friends she could trust to send a message or let her send a message rather than set Eugene up to get caught? Maybe not.

    Well, at least it’s out there now, and the chips will fall where they may. It’s going to reveal a lot about this community and whether or not our “family” should even get involved with them, no matter how good it looks on the surface.
     

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