Their bond is deep.


Morgan: " you think you black."
Rick: " im black yea."
Morgan: "brotha.. you got skin like an english kid."
Rick: " well I dont like coffee."
Morgan: " but you eat a bagel."
lol...

 

I think Morgan is the right person to try and bring Carol back to Alexandria. When he bumped into Eastman, he was in a terrible way mentally but Eastman brought him back and got him on the path he is today. Granted his way of thinking right now is not perfect for the world they live in, but he went from the brink to his current state of mind and that was because of someone like Eastman being there for him and helping him. If Morgan can find Carol, maybe he can do the same for her. It might not lead to her becoming like Morgan, but he could get her back in the right frame of mind to exist in their world and within Alexandria.

As well as Rick knows Carol, he is not really the right guy to get through to Carol at this point and I think he realises that, and that is part of the reason why he lets Morgan go off on his own. The next part is that Rick was only going to go much further in his search for Carol anyway because of the threat that Alexandria currently faces. He might want to save Carol and bring her back because she's part of his family, but there's also a lot of other people in Alexandria that may need his help and protection if the Saviors turn up. The other part comes back to Morgan's view on life, if the Saviors do turn up then is Morgan going to kill or try to save them? Does Rick really want Morgan around Alexandria at this point in time if the Saviors turn up? I'm not sure because while Morgan is very talented with that stick, he is going to want to try and save them and convert them, whereas Rick and co will probably want to kill them like they did a couple of episodes ago. So overall I think Rick made a decision that works best for Carol (ie having someone like Morgan to help her through her issues) and also is best for Rick and the community (ie with the fight that's coming, he will want people willing to fight and kill to protect Alexandria).

 

Rick: "Hey Morgan, what type of flowers are those?"

 

In S1 roughly less a month into the ZA, people would still have been clinging onto societal views on morality more than now. If you made it past the initial outbreak, you wouldn't be experiencing just how twisted the human threat was going to become. The factors that have molded the "take no chance" mentality of the past two seasons have been heinous human altercations.

Morgan wouldn't have experienced that this early in the game. None of the group as well would have just killed someone they found injured and alive by this point.

Morgan did a good thing here. Morgan's always been credited for this, it's why he was popular and why fans wanted him to return so bad.

However, this act in the past is now irrelevant to what we're dealing with now.

I've destroyed this in the other thread, as did many others. How can you be so deluded to direct to Morgan's "it's a circle" rationale when we know what caused all of the issue's leading up to Carl's eye?

Come on...

I know it's difficult, but try to think.

Morgan's wolf encounter, which was an attack on his life in the moment by some merciless bandits and Rick's Governor encounter, which was an attempt at an end to hostilities on both sides, are unrelated.

Nice attempt at a deflection though.

Morgan knowingly allowed two murderous maniacs to escape with their lives and roam free in the area after attempting to take his. If I encounter a serial killer in real life and don't either turn him in, or kill him in self defense, I would be in part responsible for what that serial killer does to another at a later time.

Oh the delusion, help us...

Pulling his weight like tying a maniac up while his comrades are still out slaughtering your community? Pulling his weight like letting 5 of them flee out into the woods to.... disable the RV, which was the last chance to direct the herd elsewhere? While knowing your companions are still out there, send some maniacs their way?

And then withheld the information in traitorous fashion from his community while thousands of Walkers were banging on the walls right outside.... he's a model character.

How? Because they found his backpack? How about the 5 Morgan let go that disabled the RV?

Let me repeat that for you 5 times(for 5 wolves), maybe repetition works:

- Morgan let 5 wolves go who disabled the RV, disabling Rick's ability to lead the herd away.
- Morgan let 5 wolves go who disabled the RV, disabling Rick's ability to lead the herd away.
- Morgan let 5 wolves go who disabled the RV, disabling Rick's ability to lead the herd away.
- Morgan let 5 wolves go who disabled the RV, disabling Rick's ability to lead the herd away.
- Morgan let 5 wolves go who disabled the RV, disabling Rick's ability to lead the herd away.

Let me know if you need 5 more.

Glenn is wrong for giving Nicholas a chance - yes, which almost led to his own death. Congratulations you made a logical point.

Now, Glenn is not responsible for the RV. It's incredible how far you are reaching here. Morgan allowed the Wolves to go, this would be the 2nd time he did so and doing the same thing again and again to no new result is literal insanity, which is what he is - a nutcase.

Glenn being delayed in a situation where they're being trailed by thousands of walkers is responsible for the Wolves Morgan let go shooting the RV's console, disabling it? Really?

Rick was dumb for that certainly. However, Morgan absolutely has to do with that situation because that situation was escalated by the situation of ASZ-walker apocalypse.

Do I need to explain the ASZ-Walker apocalypse "circle" again?

No walker herd at the walls and then inside the walls = No Carl losing his eye. No Deanna dying, no Jessie dying - Ron losing his family is what spurred him to fire on Rick in that moment.

Ron was a festering little punk, but the attack of the Wolves and the grim nature of the herd situation contributed massively to his intentions and directly contributed to him firing the gun in that moment.

The herd/wolves = Morgan, Morgan & more Morgan.

Wow. Insane.

Wow. Even more insane.

I hope for your sake that you're trolling and that I was bored enough to take the bait, but I doubt it. Morgan apologists relate to an insane character.

 

Less than a month and people are still clinging to societal views?

In season 1 societal views were long gone and something Dale was only holding onto. Soldiers executing civilians in the hospital in front of shane, the only reason Merle and daryl became cool with the group was to rob them of every single thing they have and leave them for dead. The nasty and twisted side already existed and morgan encountered it all.

You really didn't destroy anything. Morgans belief of everything gets a return was fully reinforced when morgan tells rick what he did and rick accepts with out being upset at all, Rick knows its true as rick also has his beliefs when carl was shot numerous times and rick looked to faith. Rick believes in morgan and trusts him.

The events leading up to carls eye
1. Rick kills Rons father pete
2. Rick humps Rons mom
3. Carl and enid flirt
4.Aaron looses pack and wolves find out where Alexandria is. The wolves knew absolutely nothing about alexandria or it whereabouts prior finding Aarons backpack.
5. Ricks silly idea to lead thousands of walkers out of a trapped quarry all at "ONCE" and lead them down the road with cars
6. Wolves capitalize on aarons blunder the walkers attack ron looses his family and shoots him
7. Morgan has absolutely nothing to do with that scenario

There is no difference between rick sitting with the governor and the wolf sitting with morgan as both the gov and wolf are merciless bandits. Rick drank whisky with someone who he knew was a evil sodomite and a psychopath. Rick knew before going to meet the governor that he 1.tried to kill glenn, 2.fondled maggies naked breast and proposed rape to her 3.tried to kill daryl 4.has tanks full of real heads and zombie heads 5. knew ricks exact location and everything about rick.Thats over 3 Strikes. Even knowing all of that, Rick stilll doesn't deal with that immediate threat at the meeting(arrow on the doorpost), but instead drinks whiskey tries to reason with a killer and sodomite the same way morgan reasoned with the wolf, and then rick offers up a member of his group to the gov by going to merle who had a change of heart. Everyone can change.

The wolf stumbles upon Morgan the same way morgan stumbled upon eastman, with a gun drawn(heres not here). The wolf knows absolutely nothing about him or even a place called alexandria, and his attempt to rob a single lone passerby is failed as morgan has been trained by eastman and has dealt with bandits before. He smiles gives the wolf a way out of his wretched lifestyle, beats him down and is gone.

Both rick and morgan offered dangerous people a way out of their lifestyle, Even when the Governor rolled up on rick with a tank Rick still offered him peace instead of shooting him without even talking. The only reason you see it as deflection is because it doesn't fit the negative narrative you conjured up in your mind about morgan.

Oh the delusions, this isn't real life this the TWD TV universe. Your feelings about what happens if you encounter a serial killer in real life are irrelevant. Even if it was real life you would not be responsible, that is like saying a rape victim is responsible for other rapes for not killing a serial rapist who has raped them during their encounter, completely dumb. Morgan didn't allow anyone to escape, morgan beat the bloody snot out of the wolves and left them unconscious.

[video=youtube;31hxKV4RUZE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31hxKV4RUZE[/video]

Hes more than a model character, hes one of the best. Rick has kept information from his group in what you deem to be a "traitorous fashion" many times as well. Owen was the last wolf, all threats had been eliminated and morgan had disabled him. There was absolutely no one fighting during the time morgan tied up owen.

Why was rick sitting for sooooooooo long parked in the middle of the road instead of driving the rv to leading the thousands of walkers he released from a trapped quarry? Morgan told the wolves after beating them up if you continue you will die., They met rick and died.

Why is rick sitting parked in the middle of the road instead of leading he herd away?

Repeating a useless mantra that you conjured up in your mind doesn't change this stone cold fact, The Wolves even being in their vicinity and the blood of alexandria was on aarons hands and he owned up it all infront of everyone once he found his backpack after this scene

Why is rick sitting in the middle of the road parked when he should be driving? had he been driving the wolves would meet a following herd instead of an rv parked in the middle of the road

Repeating a useless mantra of "herd /wolves= morgan causing"does not change the stone cold fact that aaron owned up to it all and the blood is on his hands

Comprende boy?

Ricks idea to release thousands of walkers out of a trapped quarry with inexperienced people on a dry run instead of doing herd control over time has absolutely nothing to do with morgan. Morgan has nothing to do with jessie having a silly idea to have her scared shitless son Sam walk through a herd instead of go safely with father gabriel. That is why he died and she died. Morgan has nothing to do with that or ron shooting carl.

blah blah blah

 

Every bit of nonsense you have posted there has already been addressed and I'm not going to repeat it. The utilization of meme's to try to add exclamation to your illogical points further clarifies the lack of substance in your opinions, many of which disregard absolute fact.

 

I really believe you disregard absolute fact. the fact is we would still be at the prison if Glenn had killed the Governor when he the opportunity in 3-16. He was following the "All life is precious" mantra even if it was unspoken. So all hardships which have befallen the group since then are his fault following your logic. [MENTION=46502]Captain Sisko[/MENTION] You got the form response when Ionut is unable to refute what you post and does not like it. And if blame is to be laid for the Wolves finding the ASZ it does lay with Aaron. The wolves didnt know the ASZ existed until the saw the photos they recovered from the backpack

 

Do you even know what you're referencing, or it's comparison? Glenn was on the warpath and the others calmed him to not throw his life away, as there's no way they had the resources to go on the offensive, namely Glenn as a lone wolf and get the Governor.

The situation that was being compared was Wolves/Morgan and Morgan not killing the Wolves after being randomly threatened death and attacked by them being akin to Rick not capping the Governor in a peace talk scenario. These situations are not comparable.

The person urging them on to kill the Governor to end hostilities as well during the time of the negotiations(which was the cited time period) was Merle and I am not disagreeing with that position, I am disagreeing any of this is comparable to what Morgan did.

I stated Morgan let them go the first time - we'll give him a pass, although he let two murderous maniacs stay alive there's no way he could have known it'd have indirectly contributed that kind of craziness. Letting them go a 2nd time during their assault on ASZ and then harboring the MF'er after realizing what he caused by leaving them alive is the heinous crime.

Learn to ascertain easy to read information from text before replying.

I am not going to repeat to him the same stuff in my previous post.

But for you, let me show you a little equation to clear this up:

Morgan/Wolves first encounter with Morgan killing Wolves leaders = No attack on ASZ by Wolves, Wolves dead and don't find backpack. Walker apocalypse not initiated by semi truck horn during attack. /end

Morgan/Wolves first encounter as is = Wolves alive and find Aaron's backpack, plan attack on ASZ. Wolves attack on ASZ. Aaron accidentally contributing to situation Morgan allowed from encounter 1.

Morgan/Wolves second encounter during attack with Morgan killing 5 wolves = RV not getting shot up and Rick leading majority of broken heard away from ASZ = no Walker apocalypse on ASZ.

Morgan/Wolves second encounter during attack as is = 5 wolves being released into open with gun, shooting up RV and disabling it and removing last chance to divert heard = Walker apocalypse on ASZ.

Never have I said that Aaron was not partly responsible(even though by total accident, unlike Morgan), what I have stated is that factually Morgan has the majority of the blame for the situation.

A fact which is only debatable if you are completely thick and ignorant.

 

I am neither thick or ignorant. You assume that if Morgan killed the two Wolves he encountered then none the other of the Wolves would have checked the traps. I beg to disagree. As a group the rest would have known about the traps and would have keep check on them. It wouldn't have changed the fact Aaron left his backpack behind. It probably only changed the fact that two less Wolves would have been attacking the ASZ. Your basis for your first statement in your "equation" falls apart without an assumption of the Wolves being incapable to continue without these two Wolves. So this is not a fact just your opinion. The fact is the Wolves didnt know about ASZ until the backpack with photos.

 

I like how the second encounter with the Wolves involving Morgan is ignored repeatedly, when that's the one that we can directly credit to him and also contributed to the horde reaching the walls. Do we agree that the horde reaching the walls was the primary cause of the cited issue's in this discussion?

The Horde reaching the walls = Wolves attack/Horn + inability to divert them after with RV. My primary issue I am continually attributing to Morgan is the inability to divert the majority of the horde that broke off from the horn via the RV being disabled due to Morgan allowing 5 Wolves to be released with a gun.

Nobody else has anything to do with that particular issue. Morgan saw the same maniac with his maniac brethren that were attempting to slaughter his whole community and let them go out into the open knowing that the horde was broken off and his companions were still out there....

And they subsequently disabled the last effort to divert the horde.

You ignore facts and use irrelevant diversions.

Presumptuous. The two in question here were the leaders and without them a number of different scenario's could have happened.

No, they didn't know. And like I said Aaron is accidentally apart of the blame in the Wolves/Horde fiasco. I have never stated otherwise and it wasn't smart in his naive state to carry about photos and a map of area schematics leading to it, but this was completely hands off and unintentional within this context.

Morgan is hands on and direct within this context.

No leader wolves... maybe they do find the pack, maybe Aaron and Daryl die, maybe they don't... maybe one of them does... maybe the Wolves find the pack and decide not to attack, maybe they decide to attack but at a later date to when the group is dealing with the Horde, maybe they wander off elsewhere without their leaders... maybe maybe maybe.

I'm going by what we have on screen.

So let me repeat it again:

Morgan in the first encounter didn't kill the two maniacs that found the pack. - Fact, but like I said he can basically be given a pass here not knowing the repercussions it would cause... but it's why we remove crazy hostiles even from our real world, they are dangerous.

Aaron's pack found, total accident on Aaron's part - Fact

Wolves attack/horn/etc - Fact

Morgan let's Wolves go during attack(total insanity), they shoot up RV console, no chance of further diverting the horde and the horde reaches the gates - Fact

Now, logically, who has contributed more to the fiasco and directly so?

If you answer Aaron then you're thick and ignorant.

 

During the attack it's also worth mentioning that Aaron was at least trying to kill the Wolves to neutralize the threat. I don't recall how many he took out, but it shows on screen he took out at least 1.

Morgan on the other hand almost blew Carol's cover to go tie one up while they're hacking up his community, imagine if they had taken the armory in that instance...

Then he lets 5 of them go out into the open with a gun and harbors the leader deceptively under everyone's nose.

So for the fiasco let's call it 75% Morgan and 25% Aaron. While Aaron was suffering deep contrition for his part in it, Morgan had the Wolf leader secretly tied up in his basement and deceived everyone.

 

[MENTION=95192]Ionut[/MENTION]

Can't you see that Morgan is trying to save lives, help people move past traumatic events and bring peace to a post-apocalyptic world?

Sure, he's made some big mistakes; who hasn't? What Morgan has been trying to do is both very honorable and very beautiful. How can you hate that?

Also, doesn't "Here's Not Here" show us that Madman!Morgan was a basically Wolf: killing anything that moves and taking whatever is left for himself. So, yeah, it makes sense why Morgan had a softer spot for the Wolves.

 

I can see that Morgan is indisputably conflicted lunatic that is not bothered by the concept of rationality.

Because causing mayhem and then deceiving your companions in fire times are not honorable. He is now trying to help Carol, but that is not the focal point of this discussion.

The Wolves are self aware sociopaths. Morgan was an uncontrolled, mentally malfunctioning psychopath.

They aren't related, unless all killing is the same. Many mental midgets here who obviously can't process complexities and think in black and white(much like Morgan)seem to think all killing is equal.

 

[MENTION=95192]Ionut[/MENTION]

The Rick and Morgan subplot of "East" was one giant metaphor, comparing Morgan's treacherously unilateral decision to keep the Alpha Wolf alive as a prisoner and Carol's treacherously unilateral decision to kill sick people at the prison.

Neither Carol nor Morgan felt particularly bad for doing what they did. Rick was both disappointed and disgusted by what they did. However, in hindsight, Rick applauds Carol's actions and even admits that he would do it himself if it happened again. When Morgan confesses, he turns the tables on Rick by implying that Rick will eventually come around and be able to see what he sees: just like Rick did with Carol.

THAT is probably why Rick didn't shoot him.

He realized that Morgan and Carol are two sides of the same coin. Morgan's way at least has a chance of transforming people's lives into something incredible. Whereas, Carol's way only yields more death. More death because there's no way that Carol is going to be able to save everybody every time something bad happens.

What's really funny about this situation is that Morgan ended up on a tentatively exiled like Carol was. As a parting gift/show of mercy/homage to their past friendship, Rick gave Carol a car loaded with supplies and Morgan a gun. Except in Morgan's case, Rick all but begged him to come back.

If Rick wants him to stay, then that's something.

 

The problem with all of this is how bad the writing devolved in this season. There was nothing wrong with Carol prior to his season and having her mentally break down to a squabbling, quasi-suicidal mess with to try to vindicate the Morgan character... which I don't need to further describe, was simply terribly poor writing.

Carol was balanced and fine. She killed when she had to and wasn't showing signs of degrading, but showing signs of empowerment and further emotional control. Flipping her to a total 180 from 6x08 to current is unrealistic and stupid for how they developed her in S4-first half of S6.

Carol and Morgan's different actions here are not at all related, in both context of the time and intention. Carol's action was with intent to protect the group, Morgan's was with intent to uphold his code which keeps his thin line of sanity going. As Carol stated in 6x09 - harboring the wolf was for Morgan and noone else.

What is he going to transform? His policy is unrealistic and insane even for our world, much less the apocalypse and his policy that he allowed mayhem to happen for he already violated by shooting the guy over Carol. But that only signifies the utter trash writing that we saw his character devolve into upon his return in season six. They wrote him in as such a lunatic up his own ass that he was a danger to all around him, now they are trying to make him more reasonable. It's garbage. I'm calling it out for what it is and what we have seen as show canon.

You guys who apologize for Morgan have a very warped view of reality.

 

You're forgetting what Carol was like at the end of S4 and the beginning of S5.

I don't think you read in between the lines well.

Yes, the main reason why Morgan imprisoned the Alpha Wolf was to reaffirm himself and his beliefs. But if you rewatch 6x09, you'll notice that Carol had a hard time telling Morgan that his need to try to save the Alpha Wolf was selfish. Why? Why did she have such a hard time telling him that?

Because Carol knew doggone well that her poorly-timed obsession to kill the Alpha Wolf right then and there was also selfish. Again, remember: Carol brought the knife and the keys into the basement that the Alpha Wolf used to free himself and hold Denise hostage.

So when Morgan (and Rosita) confront Carol in 6x12 about her decision to keep the Alpha Wolf almost-crisis secret, Carol's knee-jerk reaction is "I'm not doing this because I feel just as responsible for his escape. I'm doing this to protect Morgan and Denise." Neither Morgan nor Rosita bought it.

Funny thing about it is if you rewatch 6x07, Carol does the same thing with Sam. When Sam asks her a pointed question about if killing people turns people into monsters, using his dad (a killer), walkers/"monsters" (killers) and the Wolves (a bunch of killers) as examples and reference points, Carol answers his question in a way that implicates her as a monster, just like Pete and the Wolves. And she pauses for like a second.

So it's no wonder why Morgan and Rosita saw right through Carol's shtick. Not even Carol could fully buy into it.

This is all symbolized by why Carol had such a hard time wiping the W off her forehead in 6x02. Why she completely spazzes out after she meets Paula (and Molly to a lesser extent).

The whole Carol/Morgan storyline this season has been sublime.

People's lives.

Why is it unrealistic and insane for our world? Don't you see people trying to save other people's lives? Don't you get that living is all about taking chances and surviving is about taking zero chances?

Morgan is doing an admirable thing. He's not right all the time. But he's trying. And his efforts are commendable.

 

True. Morgan is not the paragon of mental stability. But a small blind child could see that Morgan is TRYING to save lives and bring peace back to a world ravaged by horrors upon horrors.

If you can't see that, then what does that say about you?

Rick has done this. Carol has done this. Eugene has done this. Gabriel has done this. Daryl has done this.

But look at them now: they are lauded as heroes.

I'm not saying that what Morgan did was a good thing. It was wrong...just as wrong as Rick hiding the fact that they were all infected; Carol killing Karen and David at the prison; Eugene lying about knowing about a cure; Gabriel using the people who have saved his life as a scapegoat for his self-destructive unwillingness to forgive himself; Daryl making a huge scene after what happened to his brother on that rooftop fully aware that the two of them were plotting to rob the Atlanta camp that night.

No one's hands are clean in this.

Why do you say that the Wolves were sociopaths and Morgan the psychopath?

All killing isn't the same. That is true. But don't all types of killing yield the same result...a corpse?

 

You really should learn to use correct terminology. It undermines your arguement when you use terminology incorrectly. The Wolves are pyschopaths also.

so·ci·o·path/ˈsōsēōˌpaTH/
noun
a person with a personality disorder manifesting itself in extreme antisocial attitudes and behavior and a lack of conscience.

psy·cho·path/ˈsīkəˌpaTH/
noun
a person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behavior.

Morgan is a former psychopath and the Wolves are psychopaths. They are similair in the aspects as @Blacklighting pointed. You seem to contridict your self quite often.