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Rick Killing the POW Saviors

Discussion in 'Episode 814 - Still Gotta Mean Something' started by Neuropyramidal, Apr 1, 2018.

  1. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    The right thing to do? And right after one of them saved Rick?
     
  2. Chr1s

    Chr1s Well-Known Member

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    The right thing? No, some of them could be "saved". But absolutely understandable.

    This is just another one moments that make you look at Negan v Rick. That's not something Negan would have done and in many ways Rick can be worse of a person than Negan is.

    I really like the end of that scene when Morgan said "Because my Son was there." Followed by Rick looking at himself in the mirror. What a great scene overall.
     
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  3. Duce000

    Duce000 Active Member

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    Honestly this was the moment I had been waiting for. The moment Rick went too far with killing. All his other kills have been on the line but never crossing it. This one he finally crossed the line and I liked how he looked at himself in the mirror after. I also liked how his hand was actually shaking when he pulled the trigger.

    But to answer the question I think it was the wrong thing to do. Early in the war I would’ve agreed but now when you actually do have a safe way to hold the prisoners you didn’t need to kill them. You heard they don’t want to be a part of the saviours anymore and they actually saved you. Like I said Rick finally crossed that line and I’m interested to see how’s it affects him moving forward
     
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  4. DragonRacer

    DragonRacer Well-Known Member

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    Rick looking at himself in a BROKEN mirror was an even better touch, I thought. Very deliberate.
     
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  5. Neuropyramidal

    Neuropyramidal Well-Known Member

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    With one caveat though. Negan would not have done this according to his code he lives by. People are a resource and he tries to keep everyone in line. However, this code was created at a time when Negan's group held all the power in the area. When he could afford to have this code, when no one was really a threat to him or his group.

    I would question whether Negan would do something like that if he was fighting an even bigger group than the Saviors, who had the power to slaughter the Saviors. Would he whittle that group's number down if he could, to eliminate that threat? The same way Rick is doing? I think he would.

    He hasn't really slaughtered large numbers of people in this war so far [outside of battle that is], because he still really feels he has the upper hand. His overconfidence was still much evident after they escaped from the Savior horde, and visited ASZ. But if he was put in the position that he himself has put Rick in over the last 2 seasons....I think Negan would whittle em down too. Even in the back.
     
  6. msmith73

    msmith73 Member

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    i think it is just weird how the TV Rick is so much more savage than the comic Rick and the TV Negan is more compassionate than the comic Negan
     
  7. Ubiq

    Ubiq Active Member

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    I think Rick had no choice but to kill them as bringing them back to the Hilltop would have not sat well with Maggie. Let's face it, she probably would have told Rick to kill them or would have done it herself.
     
  8. Weallgotit

    Weallgotit Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the Savior in the blue shirt that cut Rick and Morgan free was worth saving perhaps. And I think he stopped Jared from shooting them a couple of times. He even killed a walker that was about to bite Rick. Still he was the first one Rick chopped with the ax. That's cold Rick.
     
    #8 Weallgotit, Apr 1, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
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  9. Blueman

    Blueman Well-Known Member

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    I wonder the fate of the few saviours who did not run away with this group.
    I mean, if Rick did not spare anyone of this group (even the guy who killed a walker that was about the bite Rick), why would he spare the few saviours who are still at the Hilltop away?

    Back at the Hilltop, it seems those few saviours are already out of the holding pen with freedom. I wonder if Rick will find an excuse to kill them.
     
  10. Sully

    Sully Active Member

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    Nah I think the ending of the episode really sets things up for Rick's ultimate and unavoidable transformation. They wanted him to go so far to the other side before he finally accepts and embraces what Carl is trying to say.

    With him refusing to read Carl's letter before going out, and then completely doing something so vile and immoral than he's ever done before, finally reading Carl's letter at the end will bring him back.

    That's all what this was about surely.
     
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  11. tink

    tink Well-Known Member

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    Rick becomes Simon. He's nothing but a lying murderer, at least Morgan has the excuse he's crazy. I don't think that's forgivable, even though he's grieving for Carl, murdering innocent people isn't something I can go along with.
     
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  12. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    I'd have capped Jared without question(and what an awesome death scene), but killing the others is definitely going too far after they freed you and evidently did not want to rejoin the Saviors.

    But then again, I'd have capped Jared way back.

    I got tired of them riding the blurring of the morality lines thing into "grey area" stuff, but in this instance Rick went total dark side here and sociopath Negan is showing far more purpose and versatility.

    They have salvaged this story arc with some good episodes after some serious rough patches.
     
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  13. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    Yes.

    The additional caveat is that Negan wouldn't be emotionally affected by such an action.

    While Rick went too far here, objectively on any scale -- this is keeping in mind that Negan emotionlessly subjugates, psychologically torments and murders innocent people off the bat to use them as a "resource".

    He views people for their use and has all feats of high functioning psychopathy.

    Negan put in the reverse situation Rick is in, with imagining a scenario where he lost a son, would slaughter an enemy unquestionably.

    I also wouldn't put Rick at Simon's level and the base reasoning here is that this instance was a stretch for Rick, who otherwise was someone who'd take people in and work with people and not seek to oppress them and kill innocents -- where as that's daily business for Simon and Co.

    So it was a dip in that side, but something that obviously affected Rick. Simon don't give a ****, Negan don't give a **** -- point blank.

    They're doing well to show Negan's functionally reasonable elements, as he is a purpose driven psychopath -- but there's no mistake here that Negan is far more morally reprehensible than Rick or anybody in Rick's group.
     
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  14. Ionut

    Ionut Active Member

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    But here is a more interesting thing --

    Many people on the board, including myself thought that it was ridiculous in the previous episode during the battle that Jesus insisted and influenced the crew to take the POWs.

    In that scenario a lot of us would have been okay with executing all of them due to them being in the Saviors and us seeing how horrible the Saviors are as a generality. Of course you'd already know not all of them are irredeemable, but during the battle it was "why bother taking the risk, considering who they are".

    In that situation if I was the group leader, I would have executed that entire lot of Saviors.

    However, in this most recent situation I'd definitely would have only taken out Jared, because Jared is a full on Savior, psycho and general threat.

    I'm basically where Maggie is at with it all.
     
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  15. Marc

    Marc Well-Known Member

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    It is a war and many Savious outright call themself Negan and shown themself to be good liers. I think, out of a Post Apocalypse Feudal Society standpointt, it was the right thing, applying our modern day morale values on it? No. And I think they where not personally bad people but we seen it before as said, people acting weak and cowardly until they stab in the dark.
     
  16. EZD

    EZD Well-Known Member

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    You all seemed to forget that Rick & Morgan were not kept alive for any other reason but to buy the way back into negans good graces by his low life disciples that were the prisoners?

    Rat Face wanted to drop the dead weight right away rather than try to drag them along and this included his own guys and R&M.
    He seemed to see things as they really were.
    Most others wanted R&M alive to use as an offering for negan and a couple wanted to defect back to the Hilltop only after Ricks insincere offer to them to join him.

    If they really wanted o leave the Saviors they would have stayed behind in the Hilltop instead of making a run for it and clearly showing their true intentions.

    They were so stupid that after somehow capturing our guys they posted no lookouts anywhere and were swarmed by a herd too?

    They had to DIE and in no way is Rick even close to as nasty as negan?
    Rick is not deluded about killing where negan is completely deluded and buys his own bullshit about it too.

    These guys all participated in negans dream and were his muscle to get the job done.

    Die Ratface DIE!
     
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  17. Marc

    Marc Well-Known Member

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    Considering what EZD said, do the outposts have workers too? These g uys did not seem so prone to fighting nor the whole no posted lookouts. Alteast the lookouts went inside as soon as they magically ambushed RICK AND MORGAN which was bit HOW THE HELL!?
     
  18. 8307c4

    8307c4 Well-Known Member

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    That truth started to dawn on me way back in the episodes with the Governor, the bit with the Termites affirmed it somewhat, everyone else kept saying "but they deserved it" but as far as I'm concerned it didn't make it right. The claimers, and I can't recall all the groups they ran into but it was mostly "off with you" as well in some cases we can say they were too far gone but still Rick was Judge, Jury, Executioner.

    And yes, that is why Rick is (or has become) in ways worse than Negan.

    That's not saying I care much about Ratface (and I did get a smile when I read that moniker, I knew right away whom we're talking about).

    Yes, I feel that way also, IF... And that's probably a big if...
    But IF they can keep this up they will likely get their viewer base back, I can tell just from the participation here that viewership is way, way down.
    Only time will tell, makes us the hardcore fans.
     
    #18 8307c4, Apr 2, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
  19. Lori Grimes

    Lori Grimes Active Member

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    As I wrote on the rating thread; LOVE the contrast between us seeing Negan's heart and Rick losing his.
    Gotta say, him waiting to get saved and the hoard to mostly clear THEN playing chop suey was a bit of a shock! I rarely get shocked by TWD anymore so that was cool.
     
  20. Dnae

    Dnae Well-Known Member

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    That was a great, very nuanced moment!
     

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